After having coffee with a male friend today, I came home and changed some of the information I share with my “friends” on Facebook. I felt incredibly conflicted doing this.
The context of our conversation was the following: I’ve been asked out at a fairly normal, even healthy rate, by men I meet while out and about, but as soon as they ‘friend’ me on Facebook, there seems to be an extreme amount of vanishing going on. According to my male friend, my level of disclosure is too much for most men to stomach (in his words, men want “mystery” or at least to think that there is a challenge to getting a girl’s number and information). Of course, my reaction was that any man that couldn’t handle a few foursquare check-ins and posts about my son and life on FB wouldn’t be man enough to deal with me anyway, so good riddance. However I wondered in the back of my mind if removing my phone number and tightening up the privacy settings just a wee bit wouldn’t hurt anyway.
As I did this it occurred to me that there was a new ‘class’ of women emerging in the world. When I open up FB, most of the posts talking about personal lives, posting whereabouts and having deep discussions about sex and modern love are by the women I have as friends on FB. Many of them single. Most of them list their contact information, including phone number. The number of posts by women seem to be far greater than those by men – and I have more male ‘friends’ than female by far (it’s the circles I run in). And this seems consistent with some of the most recent research about who is participating on social networks (more women). Only a few years back, though, it seemed to be the opposite.
Only 3 years ago, it seemed that women were more closed in their use of social web tools:
Women were keeping their Twitter accounts private, their Facebook accounts only open to close friends and they certainly weren’t joining the social networks that broadcast location at a major rate. I’m not sure what the percentage is, but it does appear that women are dropping the “women need to be private for safety” line in exchange for the “women need to be public for success” line. At least in my circles.
Recently, this article came out proclaiming that, well, we as women don’t really “need” men anymore as we are earning more money, more educated and have the majority of the buying power now. Hell, we don’t really even need them to make babies thanks to modern science. My favorite line in the entire article is:
Guys, one senior remarked … “are the new ball and chain.”
Still, as I remarked to my friend (who thought I repeated the line “I don’t *need* a man” too many times to be a neutral statement), I would like to have a healthy, long term relationship with a man, so I’m trying to get to the bottom of the vanishing problem (and vanishing before I can even have an IRL date). As he put it, “You probably don’t want to be dating normal men anyway.”
Bingo. “The normals” is a term I’ve heard come up more and more lately. At one point it was used to describe non-early-adopter types that you want to attract to your startup. At some point, it became people who don’t ‘get’ our crazy social web lifestyle. The lifestyle where we are recording every moment, happening, thought and occasion in some sort of digital form and quite often broadcasting it to everyone. It is quite addictive, really, especially when it is so full of every day rewards: increasing your friend base (geographically as well as numerically), getting you hired to teach others to do this stuff, small bits of fame here and there and interesting moments every day. Broadcasting and connecting with other broadcasters becomes a way for life to get super interesting quickly. It isn’t trivial, either. The knowledge I accumulate through my random conversations daily has made me dangerous at a cocktail party. Who needs to read the paper anymore when we pass around articles before they are published and dissect them as a collective?
“The Normals” who are part of those conversations are left in our opinionated dust. In our crazy social web world, we gain one another’s respect by our deep analysis of social issues. In the ‘normal’ world, we are seen as complete airbags. But there is nothing wrong with our neverending quest for knowledge or desire to share every bit of that knowledge accumulated (being the awesome knowledge brokers we are), it’s just, well, a little abnormal…for ‘normal’ people.
And it’s worse for women. A man who knows lots of stuff, shares it and gets excited by this knowledge is seen by most as industrious, ambitious and smart. Not all women, but many women see this man as attractive and someone with great earning potential. A woman who exhibits a keen desire to share knowledge (for instance, to talk about data, the future of economics and the changing socio-cultural climate) on the other hand is really ONLY seen as attractive by men who are excited by those conversations. For male “Normals”, this woman is emasculating at best.
It’s a stereotype stuck in another era, really. As the presence of women as the leaders in the workforce grows, it will be more an more crucial for women to be knowledgeable and ready to share and strut that knowledge. And not only will it be necessary for our professional lives, but, hell, it will become apparent that knowledge is freakin awesome, so we will want to pursue more of it. At some point, “The Normals” will occupy the minority, too, because survival will be directly tied to our knowledge and ability to share it…but that’s a whole other post.
I knew there was a reason that I’ve found nerds sexier than jocks and rockstars as I’ve grown older (and wiser). They seem to understand that holding her own in a debate on the future of nuclear energy or whether China is the next superpower is the sexiest thing a woman can do and that a woman who blogs, posts her geo-location and scours the web for interesting articles to post on her FB profile is just being smart about her data. The mystery that turns nerds on is in figuring out how to read between the lines of her Twitter stream, how to decode the latest Blip.fm playlist to find out how she really feels about you and looking at her Flickr favorites to understand how she wants to see the world around her. Love is knowing that she shares what is happening with thousands of people, but her innermost fears with only you.
So I maintain that a man who asks for my number but cannot handle my level of disclosure is not the man for this modern woman. And I’m afraid it’s his dating pool, not mine, that is getting smaller.
I disagree w/ the men need mystery stereotype insomuch that humans, men and women alike, are attracted to the unknown. And the unknown allows us to project our own desires on another person. How many women do you know initially fall for the infamously elusive man as opposed to the guy who proclaims his love on the first date? I think women like the chase as much as men.
And I don’t see why it matters that a woman who exhibits a keen desire to share knowledge (for instance, to talk about data, the future of economics and the changing socio-cultural climate)…is really ONLY seen as attractive by men who are excited by those conversations. I’m not sure I even agree but in any case, aren’t these the men intellectual women want? An attractive, smart woman can absolutely attract a non-intellectual, “desirable” male, but the relationship is unlikely to last. And in defense of male nerds, the majority in my network are simply turned off by a woman who can’t hold her own in a conversation, no matter how attractive she is. One of my exes once made the comment, ‘”The new ‘trophy wife’ is the attractive, educated, successful woman (i.e. Michelle Obama) b/c how many intelligent men want to commingle his DNA with a woman who might produce [to put it bluntly] dumb offspring?” I don’t know how true this is but Bill Gates certainly didn’t marry an airhead.
I don’t think level of disclosure is a problem in using social media and attracting dates/mates. I think it’s how and what people disclose that attracts or repels interest – style and content matter.
I have to say i share photos with close frinds and family but am very guarded about what info I put online phone number No! and email I share only with work associates and my inner circle. We live in a world of too many wierdos who can misuse this info. I have to say re: Men . They prefer uswomen to keep back some of ourselves. Too much reflection can give them the jitters. We suffer from sharing too much!
I have to say I share photos with close friends and family but am very guarded about what info I put online, phone number No! and email I share only with work associates and my inner circle. We live in a world of too many wierdos who can misuse this info.
I have to say re: Men . They prefer us women to keep back some of ourselves. Too much reflection can give them the jitters. We suffer from sharing too much!
PS. great post Tara, keep em coming, Donna
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@Donna
My personal number is the same as my work number…so I share it. I’ve done it for almost 10 years now. I’ve rarely been surprised by a phonecall and never had a ‘weirdo’ call.
As for the “We suffer from sharing too much!” I still think that’s a double standard. I think those men who expect us to not share suffer from antiquated notions of women.
@Amy
I’m not sure what you are disagreeing with. I love nerds (they are who I am into anyway). And I was quoting a male friend who was telling me that men want mystery, not denying that women want mystery. I also fail to understand what you are disagreeing with in the second paragraph. I think we agree on all points.
I’m not sure if I was clear enough in getting my point across. So I’ll restate it:
1. I feel there are antiquated notions of what a woman ‘should be’ still floating around
2. I don’t identify with those antiquated notions
3. More and more women are like me – not only accomplished, but willing to share those accomplishments online…and there is a blending of personal and professional that further complicates matters
4. I don’t think I have to change who I am or feel embarrassed about my level of disclosure, I just have to realize it’s not for everyone
5. And the notions of what a woman should be are changing anyway
T
I think this holds true for most humans somewhat equally. I also think you’re absolutely right about not needing to worry about scaring off the “normal” guys. If a guy *really* likes you, he will like you for who you are, period.
Men who are afraid of strong, intelligent and open women are simply struggling with old ideals and preconceived notions about women in general. My wife is a strong, intelligent lady whom I love with all my being and whom I admire and respect very deeply. Her strength and gentleness help to make me the man that I am. If some guy can’t handle that, then he’s the one with the problem, not you. Be yourself and let love rule. The right man will be the one who respects and encourages you to be just who you are. Just my 2px…
@Tara I think the 3rd point you make in your follow-up comment is the most worthy of discussion. And I’m agreeing with you:) Success can create jealously/conflict/competition in any type of relationship. Historically men have been taught and/or encouraged to beat their chests, boast and brag about their accomplishments while women have been taught to be demure, modest and humble. Now that this is changing it threatens an entire generation of men who grew up with men only as breadwinners and leaders and never developed the interpersonal skills and emotional capacity to be in a relationship. The good news is there’s an entire generation of men coming up to replace them that love and support successful/accomplished women. Hence why I’m with a younger man – plus he’s a *rockstar* in bed;)
PS – @RecruitingAnimal I’m an Oprah fan.
I wonder if 16 year olds have these kinds of problems or if the gender norms still haven’t shifted yet.
You had me worried for a minute. Right up until the last paragraph I thought you were going to say you had decided to change your style. FWIW, I’m one of the men who hopes you don’t.
A few weeks back you said you had been out with a guy who said “OMG, I can’t believe you’re single!” and I thought that was such a terrible thing to say to anyone. As though your first choice was obviously *not* to be single. Yuk.
Be selfish. Have high standards. Talk… and listen. Seek to understand, and to be understood. Accept authenticity, and reject BS. Be your brilliant, beautiful, thirtysomething single self. And pull hot guys. Really: pull ‘em. Make ‘em like it.
I think your point #4 in the comments was dead on. You don’t need to justify your level of disclosure but you should be comfortable with men and women who may not enjoy the same. I had a conversation with a woman friend recently who is very active online about her profession, her opinions and accomplishments, and she is extremely respected by men but she has made a point not to talk much about her personal life.
I don’t think it’s a double standard between men and women. I think women tend to share more personal information online than men and that may be what men are retreating from. I turned down a potential date from a guy once I saw how much he was sharing about his personal life online – it wasn’t something I was comfortable with. To each their own
I’ve also noticed big differences in privacy/sharing comfort levels across cultures.
Your post coincides with an article on Salon.com about Bethenney Frankel’s rising star via radical self-disclosure on her reality show “Bethenny Getting Married.”
http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/bethenny_getting_married/index.html?story=/ent/tv/heather_havrilesky/2010/07/03/bethenny_gets_married
I guess my point is, different interpersonal approaches have different results, dependent on context. Whereas your emotional transparency may be entertaining and garner attention online, which is beneficial to your career, it may not have the same effect on strangers who want to gradually form intimate bonds with you. Too much information can be alienating to those desiring a more secretive kind of intimacy. Many people conflate intimate with private.
That does not mean you should change, but you may have to accept that it may alienate conservative suitors who want something different.
One word of advice learned the hard way during my emotionally volatile 20something blogging years: the written word is very open to misinterpretation, and even more so in emotionally charged texts. If what you write could be interpreted as cold, manipulative, selfish, anti-man or hostile, even if that is not the intention, think twice before posting it three hours before a hot date, so he doesn’t get cold feet.
I’m not sure that trying to label/categorize/judge people based on their level of (or comfort with) *personal* online sharing is useful, let alone accurate. The amount and type of *personal* sharing is–and in my opinion SHOULD be–a personal, individual choice, and to use it as a metric by which you can judge their intellect, values, ethics, or any other form of “goodness” is a mistake.
I could not agree more with your desire to not be judged for your social media choices. Nobody should be. But exchanging one social standard of how women *should* be for another is not a healthy path. I believe the best approach is to celebrate *personal* *individual* choice, regardless of whether that choice matches any version of social expectations 2.0.
Do you honestly believe that all early-adopter/tech enthusiasts (i.e. the NON-normals) are implicitly high social media sharers? *Knowledge* sharing and *personal* sharing are wildly different things.
@Kathy – I’m not saying women should be something new (and what I do). I just need to get over my own anxiety where I think, “I will spend the rest of my life alone because I have chosen a career that keeps me in the spotlight.” I’d really just like to meet a man who didn’t judge me by, what Aimee described, my latest post on relationships.
This post was me sorting through that. My male friend also agreed that I’m pretty atypical when it comes to women…so I should probably realize that it will take an atypical man that won’t look at my latest posts on my blog or FB and disappear. That’s pretty much what this post is about. Not trying to make anyone more public. Just trying to feel better about stuff in my OWN life.
what happens when guys get the “mysterious woman” and then learn who she is. isn’t that a setup for disappointment when you’re in a relationship with a stranger?
people are infinitely mysterious anyway because they are all different from each other
I’m not a fan of the “mysterious” when it comes to the people I date, and my own online presence is handle in a non-mysterious way.
By stating your opinions, you’re threatening the power men have held in opinions from politics and religion to sex and technology. You’re coming up with your own expertise, your own opinions, and your own success, and that’s scary to some.
I say weed out those weeds who can’t handle it. They probably aren’t someone you want to be with in the long run away.
The notion that men feel emasculated by smart women is just as much “a stereotype stuck in another era” as the one that women should dumb down so as not to alienate men. A much more likely reason for a guy deciding not to call you after reading your blog/facebook page is that he doesn’t want to become fodder for writing.
@Karen – fair enough…however, I never write about dates. I post interesting articles, videos, my exercise routines, business tips, etc. Conversations I relay (like this one) I ask permission on and don’t reveal the source (unless they request it). And I NEVER kiss and tell.
To be honest I was a bit mystified by what you were referring to as revealing as I haven’t seen anything that would bother a guy on this blog (more the opposite I’d think) – or is your Facebook presence on a different level?
@Kerry I don’t think so…maybe photos? Some of my links? (I’ve posted a few links to sites with research about sex – but only here and there and when I think it’s funny)
@Kathy,
I don’t think that — your terms — knowledge sharing and personal sharing are always or should always be separate. I shared my experience with prostate cancer. That couldn’t be more personal. But it also brought others to share their knowledge and experience. And in this, I learned about not just the disease and treatment but about our social relations.
I think Tara is grappling with something much bigger here (something I’m grappling with myself as I write a book about publicness): the shifting line between private and public and why it is where it is. We hear much talk today about privacy and yet we see people sharing more publicly (which I will argue is a generaly good and generous thing).
Thank you Jeff…and thank you for sharing your personal mixed with private and being a shining example for all of us. I believe that most people follow me because I’m willing to share my experiences:
- training and losing weight (others are getting into it, too)
- the transition from full time single mom to being an empty nester a little too early (and all of the stuff before and after that that a parent has to think about)
- being a single woman nearing the age of 40 and the implications of that (I limit much of what I share here because I’m afraid it will make me entirely undate-able, but every now and then there is a laugh worth sharing or some really good advice I’ve gotten worth passing along)
- experiences with companies and customer service that frustrate me (Jeff knows this all too well – he changed an ENTIRE COMPANY because of his airing of frustration)
and more…
These are just a few examples and they may seem like odd things to share with 30,000+ people, but they help me connect with so many of them. It’s remarkable how little people care about a link that shows how to write a good corporate blog post, but will retweet and comment for DAYS an article on sex and aging. We are human and, well, basically driven by human things.
People are sharing more publicly. There IS a vanishing line. And, like Jeff, I think it is a generally good and generous thing. I just take one look at the humanity in something like http://www.wefeelfine.org and realize that it may be the first step to recognizing that the personal hasn’t been taken care of and that people feel abandoned. Somehow professional belongs in public and personal belongs in private, but not everyone has the sanctum of a safe, accepting, helpful surrounding to feel better. That’s what I deal with and I have 30,000+ friends to call on anytime! Would I tweet less about private matters if I had a great partner and a family who understood me really well? Absolutely. But knowing what I know now about what I tweet/FB/blog and how people respond, I would still share as much as I could to help others.
I met my “person” on Twitter, and two and a half years later, we still exist as a fairly public couple. He’s just as emotional as I am about sharing certain things and talking off the top of his head — and that’s what we were drawn to about one another. However, once we were “out” about our relationship, we made decisions about certain things we wouldn’t share and places we wouldn’t go anymore, because those belonged to us, and weren’t for public consumption.
That made me think twice about everything else I was sharing on other fronts — beyond the details of my relationship — and whether I was just being a “let it all hang out” digital girl in my openness (and that was fine), or if I needed to grow some boundaries (after five years of blogging) that were a little more on the side of conservative.
And oddly, it hasn’t made me feel stifled or untrue to myself. I don’t do it to maintain mystery (that’s the last thing I care about), but rather because some of the specialness would get lost when I’d put things out in the universe for reaction and comment. I found myself questioning things if people reacted badly, or doing things to generate a reaction, rather than because they were true to me.
Now, I tend to be a bit of a performer (I love stages and microphones), so maybe others aren’t tempted in that direction, but I think we can be. We get used to the constant feedback loop, and it’s not always healthy.
I think holding something back for the sake of mystery is false. This is perhaps why I am a crappy flirt. I don’t have a freakin’ clue how to build that kind of allure. But holding something back for the sake of keeping it sacred and whole and wonderful and mine? For sure.
I think it’s unfair to jump to the conclusion that it’s the amount of information you share that is turning men away rather than the information itself. That is in no way saying anything negative about your views or any other aspect of your public persona (I’m a fan). All I am saying is that we’ve sped up a process that once took more time. Before the explosion of social networks we would get to know someone over several dates or long conversations before we had enough information to make a decision about that person’s compatibility. Now much of that information is laid out in front of us. I think it’s unfair for your friend to say that men want mystery or are turned off by intelligent women. I think simply men were always willing to invest the time to get to know a women they found attractive even if more often than not in the end their wasn’t a connection. Now that investment of time seems less necessary. Perhaps there is too much “thin-slicing” going on, but in a world of speed-dating and online compatibility matching should we really be surprised that anyone, male or female, is using the data at hand to “weed out” prospective mates?
@jeff jarvis, @tara — I agree with your comments and that it IS about the shifting lines between private and public, but I’m still concerned (deeply) about one thing: choice. I don’t think Tara should be judged for sharing *more* than some, as I don’t think “normals” should be judged for sharing *less* personally.
You believe it’s a “generally good and generous thing” that people share more publicly, but does the amount/nature of personal sharing need to have ANY value judgement attached? Yes, it can be *extremely* helpful (I blogged a couple times about my epilepsy), but to consider it a net gain without considering associated costs is a problem. For example, the moment we post anything at all — ANYTHING — that involves a member of our family, well, do we have the right to sacrifice someone else’s privacy in order to help ourselves… or even to help others? Again, I’m extreme on this, but I think personal sharing can be both “generous and good” and simultaneously very selfish.
Jeff, you mention your struggle with cancer as an example of personal sharing (that cannot be cleanly separated from *knowledge* sharing, I agree), but I put that in a VERY different category from sharing, say, the messy and somewhat intimate details of a relationship break-up. I agree the lines are fuzzy, but that doesn’t mean we throw out the respect-privacy-of-others-baby with the antiquated-notions bathwater.
I’ll be looking VERY forward to your book! I struggle with this as well… and am acutely aware that my stronger feelings about privacy come at the risk of a greater public good.
@Kathy:
Why do you see a difference between illness and relationships? Life is life. Both can be helpful to someone. That’s where the generosity comes in.
I agree completely that this is about choice (and control). I would not force a cancer patient out of the closet, so to speak. But I do believe the day will come when not sharing one’s data — about, say, the facts of one’s life that might have led to that cancer — would be seen as selfish, as depriving fellow patients of information that could help find treatment for them. So in that case, I might judge. I wouldn’t force. But I can still judge.
In my talk about my cancer and my penis and what it won’t do now, only one person accused me of — his word — “oversharing.” Talk about judgement. He was saying I should have said what I said. That’s the worst sort of judgment, I’d say. It’s an attempt to muzzle me. Well, screw ‘im. Apart from him, no other twits complained and I don’t give a damn if they do, for the reward to me (and, I hope others) well compensated for this one bozo’s waste of bits.
@jeffjarvis — hear hear re: “screw ‘im”! And it’s not that I make a distinction between illness and relationships… it’s the privacy of other people we’re involved with that I care about. You chose — generously — to share details of your condition. That’s dramatically different from sharing details of a personal relationship where you’re choosing to reveal things about another person that they may not wish to see made public.
So, blogging your cancer (or my epilepsy) is very different from blogging the ex-lover’s intimacy issues. If you share about someone other than yourself, though, you’re taking away their choice. Signing on to become part of someone else’s lifestream (by, say, dating them) requires a type of commitment that goes way past simply accepting/respecting someone for who they are, and, I think, may be completely orthogonal to the issue of “threatened egos” or outdated social norms. It may have nothing to do with fear of another’s intellect or success, and everything to do with fear of someone *else* pushing intimate details about us to the public (in the case of a successful/high-follower person like Tara, VERY public) stream.
I’m just not buying that this is really a *sexist* or threatened-male-ego thing, but then… I’m an extreme under-sharer, so I cannot be objective. Either way, any man who doesn’t accept Tara for who she is really IS an idiot. I’m certain the web/world is overflowing with smart men who’d consider her public stream risk and still say, “Totally Worth It!” Sometimes, true love just takes its own sweet time
Ah, yes, I agree: I try not to bring anyone else into my glass house.
Hi Tara,
Great post as always, and I enjoy how you’ve shared your thinking/thought processes.
My wife and I connected and continue to connect through shared humor. No one in our house is spared from ribbing when they misstate something or just trip over a dog toy. We all laugh with each other, delighting in each other’s sense of humor and absurdity (there’s a great video of my wife playing with Flarp and just cracking up).
When it comes to “living life online”, I have mixed feelings. When my friends post, I see most of it only in my “peripheral” online vision. It passes by and I might focus on it for a moment to check if it is something to which I should pay attention. If I see an immediate interest thing, e.g. World Cup that I was also just watching, I might RT or otherwise reply. If there’s a question and I know the answer, I’ll usually reply (e.g. which is the best raw milk?).
I don’t live online myself. Sometimes I go days before I remember, “Oh yeah, that Facebook thing, I wonder what’s up with people?” Twitter runs on my desktop, but I don’t follow too many people, and I don’t respond very often, either.
So mostly, people living online don’t live “in my face”, as it were, rather their lives are mostly a blur on the edges.
But, when it comes to our children, we prevent too much exposure, where we think it is inappropriate. We’ve seen our children hurt by what they’ve posted, and they’ve hurt us by it as well. I believe that people need to talk to each other, rather than declare “this” or “that” about each other. A recent Facebook status change of “In a relationship” to “Single” sparked posts, suggestions of why the breakup occurred, calls to my wife about staying away from another person… it was, and is, hurtful, annoying, none-of-their-business, stop making wrong assumptions, stop spreading rumors… and that’s just the adults/parents who happen to follow our child! Our meat friends! Yargh…
I definitely agree with your final statement – your pool is growing, and the “I don’t want to see that” person’s pool is shrinking. People like me are in the jacuzzi off to the side, watching the pool and taking the occasional dip, but mostly just closing our eyes and enjoying the soak.
- Matt H