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	<title>Comments on: Red Zone/Green Zone</title>
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	<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/</link>
	<description>a world uncommon</description>
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		<title>By: Beth Harte</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50931</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth Harte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50931</guid>
		<description>Tara, very thoughtful. Not to lower this to the basic, non-MBA level here, but the bottom-line is that yours is an example of bad management &amp; a lack of understanding on how consumers have changed (along with the technology they use), pure &amp; simple. In the economy like we have today, marketers are always the first to go also. Why? Because they are viewed as the red zone regardless of how hard they work very hard to justify every dime spent. Typically, on a whim from sales (i.e. I can&#039;t just call and get a PO, so the lead stinks), all the leads, all the relationships, etc. can be tossed out of the window. Companies need to be smarter about how technology has changed customer interactions (connections &amp; conversations that lead to trust). This includes educating everyone from the CEO to the mail room. The red zones and green zones need to merge into a gray zone (neutral) so that in the end customer satisfaction is the bottom-line the keeps the revenues recurring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tara, very thoughtful. Not to lower this to the basic, non-MBA level here, but the bottom-line is that yours is an example of bad management &amp; a lack of understanding on how consumers have changed (along with the technology they use), pure &amp; simple. In the economy like we have today, marketers are always the first to go also. Why? Because they are viewed as the red zone regardless of how hard they work very hard to justify every dime spent. Typically, on a whim from sales (i.e. I can&#8217;t just call and get a PO, so the lead stinks), all the leads, all the relationships, etc. can be tossed out of the window. Companies need to be smarter about how technology has changed customer interactions (connections &amp; conversations that lead to trust). This includes educating everyone from the CEO to the mail room. The red zones and green zones need to merge into a gray zone (neutral) so that in the end customer satisfaction is the bottom-line the keeps the revenues recurring.</p>
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		<title>By: Thou Shalt Not Have to Wait in Line to Pay</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50926</link>
		<dc:creator>Thou Shalt Not Have to Wait in Line to Pay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 01:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50926</guid>
		<description>[...] Red Zone / Green Zone: The downwad spiral of companies that view customer service as a cost (by @missrogue ) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Red Zone / Green Zone: The downwad spiral of companies that view customer service as a cost (by @missrogue ) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Xpatriated Texan &#187; Red Zones and Morality</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50925</link>
		<dc:creator>Xpatriated Texan &#187; Red Zones and Morality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50925</guid>
		<description>[...] stumbled upon an interesting post about American business (actually, I Twittered upon it) that looks at how they create Green Zones (divisions that make [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] stumbled upon an interesting post about American business (actually, I Twittered upon it) that looks at how they create Green Zones (divisions that make [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kerry</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50919</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50919</guid>
		<description>Looking back through my old blog, I found the following relevant stuff:

An article by Robert E. Prasch in the Journal of Economic Issues (Vol. XXXVII, No. 2, June 2003), entitled &quot;Technical Change, Competition and the Poor&quot;, raises some interesting questions.

&lt;blockquote&gt;One possible result [of introducing a new technology] is that a new technology, a more expensive one, can become dominant while simultaneously becoming a necessity for others who may have preferred the status quo ante. ... A possible result is that the median person may be better off after the adoption and diffusion of the new technology ... even as the cost of &quot;subsistence&quot; rises. In such a case poverty would be a more difficult condition to escape if ... access to the new technology in question is a condition for minimal economic and social participation in the larger society. (p.479)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Prasch goes on to give the credit card and automobile as examples.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Even if one chooses not to borrow against it, it serves as a signifier of trustworthiness, and its widespread use makes its possession a necessity for anyone who wishes to participate in a wide variety of transactions, including transactions that could formerly be conducted without it.

    ...

    After most Americans adopted the automobile as their primary mode of transportation, a variety of other changes occurred. Among them, low-cost forms of transportation, such as railroads and trolleys, went into decline ... [and became] less fully networked, poorly supported, and less reliable than seventy-five years ago. Moreover, after car ownership became the norm, zoning increasingly separated commercial from residential lands such that access to a dependable automobile is increasingly an implicit or explicit condition of employment. ... Moreover, the public&#039;s perception of the convenience and even the safety of [trains and trolleys] also declined as &quot;respectable&quot; people shied away from the prospect of a lengthy ride with persons of a lower socioconomic group. This, in turn, led to a lack of widespread support from the wealthier and more influential members of society...(p.450)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Without that support from the political establishment, such services were condemmed to decline. Likewise, Prasch points out the increasing disappearance of affordable pay phones with the advent of the cell phone. This raises the question of whether &quot;adding the additional channel&quot; of the internet for government services is will result in &quot;upping the bar&quot; for the poorest sector of society. As Prasch points out, the poor do not always have ready access to centralised services, such as libraries and local government offices, where internet kiosks are most likely to be located. Furthermore, where these services are decentralised, there are strong centralising pressures from cost-cutting.

Taking a step back, we should note that Prasch equates poverty with a loss of capability &quot;for minimal economic and social participation in the larger society&quot;. This is an approach based on the capabilities framework developed by the Nobel laureate Amartya Sen. Essentially, Sen stated that focussing on how much you earn is less useful than focussing on whether you are able to participate economically and socially in society.

When we consider that the minimum adult wage is less than NZ$7 (from memory) - giving a 40-hour week wage of less than NZ$280 gross - the cost of web access and a cell phone seems quite steep. Of course, those on benefits would be really stretched to cover all this, and one must question their ability to participate economically and socially in society. (And not be surprised that some people in such situations would provide a ready market for receiving cheap stolen goods.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking back through my old blog, I found the following relevant stuff:</p>
<p>An article by Robert E. Prasch in the Journal of Economic Issues (Vol. XXXVII, No. 2, June 2003), entitled &#8220;Technical Change, Competition and the Poor&#8221;, raises some interesting questions.</p>
<blockquote><p>One possible result [of introducing a new technology] is that a new technology, a more expensive one, can become dominant while simultaneously becoming a necessity for others who may have preferred the status quo ante. &#8230; A possible result is that the median person may be better off after the adoption and diffusion of the new technology &#8230; even as the cost of &#8220;subsistence&#8221; rises. In such a case poverty would be a more difficult condition to escape if &#8230; access to the new technology in question is a condition for minimal economic and social participation in the larger society. (p.479)</p></blockquote>
<p>Prasch goes on to give the credit card and automobile as examples.</p>
<blockquote><p>Even if one chooses not to borrow against it, it serves as a signifier of trustworthiness, and its widespread use makes its possession a necessity for anyone who wishes to participate in a wide variety of transactions, including transactions that could formerly be conducted without it.</p>
<p>    &#8230;</p>
<p>    After most Americans adopted the automobile as their primary mode of transportation, a variety of other changes occurred. Among them, low-cost forms of transportation, such as railroads and trolleys, went into decline &#8230; [and became] less fully networked, poorly supported, and less reliable than seventy-five years ago. Moreover, after car ownership became the norm, zoning increasingly separated commercial from residential lands such that access to a dependable automobile is increasingly an implicit or explicit condition of employment. &#8230; Moreover, the public&#8217;s perception of the convenience and even the safety of [trains and trolleys] also declined as &#8220;respectable&#8221; people shied away from the prospect of a lengthy ride with persons of a lower socioconomic group. This, in turn, led to a lack of widespread support from the wealthier and more influential members of society&#8230;(p.450)</p></blockquote>
<p>Without that support from the political establishment, such services were condemmed to decline. Likewise, Prasch points out the increasing disappearance of affordable pay phones with the advent of the cell phone. This raises the question of whether &#8220;adding the additional channel&#8221; of the internet for government services is will result in &#8220;upping the bar&#8221; for the poorest sector of society. As Prasch points out, the poor do not always have ready access to centralised services, such as libraries and local government offices, where internet kiosks are most likely to be located. Furthermore, where these services are decentralised, there are strong centralising pressures from cost-cutting.</p>
<p>Taking a step back, we should note that Prasch equates poverty with a loss of capability &#8220;for minimal economic and social participation in the larger society&#8221;. This is an approach based on the capabilities framework developed by the Nobel laureate Amartya Sen. Essentially, Sen stated that focussing on how much you earn is less useful than focussing on whether you are able to participate economically and socially in society.</p>
<p>When we consider that the minimum adult wage is less than NZ$7 (from memory) &#8211; giving a 40-hour week wage of less than NZ$280 gross &#8211; the cost of web access and a cell phone seems quite steep. Of course, those on benefits would be really stretched to cover all this, and one must question their ability to participate economically and socially in society. (And not be surprised that some people in such situations would provide a ready market for receiving cheap stolen goods.)</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Krey</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50917</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Krey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50917</guid>
		<description>Today, &#039;customer-centric company&#039; is almost an oxymoron. Companies, by MBA definition, exist to make money and not to serve customers. (Put aside that customer service actually helps making money.) In the extreme you can consider every department but sales red zones and cut them. You just take money for stuff you don&#039;t have or intend to make. That&#039;s illegal, of course, but the logical consequence.

Indeed big corporations try to sail as hard on the limits of law as possible, and by this they create a constant trickle of consumer protection laws. Can MBA even imagine a company whose reason to exist is to serve, and only to take money for that to be able to continue to serve?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today, &#8216;customer-centric company&#8217; is almost an oxymoron. Companies, by MBA definition, exist to make money and not to serve customers. (Put aside that customer service actually helps making money.) In the extreme you can consider every department but sales red zones and cut them. You just take money for stuff you don&#8217;t have or intend to make. That&#8217;s illegal, of course, but the logical consequence.</p>
<p>Indeed big corporations try to sail as hard on the limits of law as possible, and by this they create a constant trickle of consumer protection laws. Can MBA even imagine a company whose reason to exist is to serve, and only to take money for that to be able to continue to serve?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50916</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50916</guid>
		<description>Very true. It is ironic how many &quot;customer centric&quot; companies completely underfund customer service. I don&#039;t like the terms loss-leader or cost center. Nothing is a pure loss or cost (unless the business is set up terribly), they exist for a purpose. Usually it is a long-term hard to measure purpose, but the purpose does exist.
It often happens as a slow but steady erosion until they take every bit of chocolate out of what used to be a double chocolate chip cookie. It&#039;s as if they&#039;ve never played Jenga before. The tower gets taller, but the game only ends one way.

Daniel from VividCuriosity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true. It is ironic how many &#8220;customer centric&#8221; companies completely underfund customer service. I don&#8217;t like the terms loss-leader or cost center. Nothing is a pure loss or cost (unless the business is set up terribly), they exist for a purpose. Usually it is a long-term hard to measure purpose, but the purpose does exist.<br />
It often happens as a slow but steady erosion until they take every bit of chocolate out of what used to be a double chocolate chip cookie. It&#8217;s as if they&#8217;ve never played Jenga before. The tower gets taller, but the game only ends one way.</p>
<p>Daniel from VividCuriosity</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Greenshields</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50915</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Greenshields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 21:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50915</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s my honest belief that a lot of people running these companies are simply too stupid to put two and two together.  I used to work doing customer service for a particular cellphone network in the UK, and the corporate message that came down from on high was that as the pricing of service levels of the big four companies was so similar the only real differentiating factor was customer service.  Yet they provided no support to us, outsourced most of it to companies for whom it wasn&#039;t in their best interest to provide good quality service as long as their work was sufficient for their arbitrary metrics, and generally acted as though customer service was their lowest concern.  Hell, when I first started they were charging their customers premium rate just to phone in with a problem.  You can imagine how many customers actually felt good about their service after I told them they were paying 50p a minute to speak to me.

Stupidity, stupidity, stupidity, but as ever it&#039;s never the correct people who ultimately pay for the stupidity when the company&#039;s fortunes inevitably tank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s my honest belief that a lot of people running these companies are simply too stupid to put two and two together.  I used to work doing customer service for a particular cellphone network in the UK, and the corporate message that came down from on high was that as the pricing of service levels of the big four companies was so similar the only real differentiating factor was customer service.  Yet they provided no support to us, outsourced most of it to companies for whom it wasn&#8217;t in their best interest to provide good quality service as long as their work was sufficient for their arbitrary metrics, and generally acted as though customer service was their lowest concern.  Hell, when I first started they were charging their customers premium rate just to phone in with a problem.  You can imagine how many customers actually felt good about their service after I told them they were paying 50p a minute to speak to me.</p>
<p>Stupidity, stupidity, stupidity, but as ever it&#8217;s never the correct people who ultimately pay for the stupidity when the company&#8217;s fortunes inevitably tank.</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50914</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50914</guid>
		<description>Since I&#039;m studying business and analyzing every company i get to know or visit i can find that it&#039;s true that leaders want to wipe out the &quot;red zones&quot; at whatever cost because they lose money, but the problem is they don&#039;t know how to measure (in the best case) or don&#039;t even bother to measure (in the worst case) the contribution made by the red zones.
Red Zones actually are making money, but no one is measuring how much or interested i knowing how because it&#039;s not easy to do or it doesn&#039;t appear in the management theory.

To use your example, Good Costumer Service makes people repeat the buy, be happy with the company and finally drink more beer. So the contribution of that &quot;Red Zone&quot; is difficult to measure but finally it&#039;s part of the spinal chord of relationships with costumers which are finally the ones that make the sales repeat.

The problem is that we have a addiction to easily measurable numbers and a short term goal fixation. And that creates finally the red zone/ green zone atmosphere. I&#039;m on a Internship at a company (which name i cannot mention because of contract stuff that i don&#039;t agree with) and they actually do this. They are so focused on the green zones that they ignore any innovation or proposal from red zones that will help red zones to make costumers happy to continue to use our services.

In conclusion, we need to measure costumer satisfaction and numbers, not just numbers not just costumer satisfaction. Red Zones make a big contribution, it just needs to be measured. So they can be turned green.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I&#8217;m studying business and analyzing every company i get to know or visit i can find that it&#8217;s true that leaders want to wipe out the &#8220;red zones&#8221; at whatever cost because they lose money, but the problem is they don&#8217;t know how to measure (in the best case) or don&#8217;t even bother to measure (in the worst case) the contribution made by the red zones.<br />
Red Zones actually are making money, but no one is measuring how much or interested i knowing how because it&#8217;s not easy to do or it doesn&#8217;t appear in the management theory.</p>
<p>To use your example, Good Costumer Service makes people repeat the buy, be happy with the company and finally drink more beer. So the contribution of that &#8220;Red Zone&#8221; is difficult to measure but finally it&#8217;s part of the spinal chord of relationships with costumers which are finally the ones that make the sales repeat.</p>
<p>The problem is that we have a addiction to easily measurable numbers and a short term goal fixation. And that creates finally the red zone/ green zone atmosphere. I&#8217;m on a Internship at a company (which name i cannot mention because of contract stuff that i don&#8217;t agree with) and they actually do this. They are so focused on the green zones that they ignore any innovation or proposal from red zones that will help red zones to make costumers happy to continue to use our services.</p>
<p>In conclusion, we need to measure costumer satisfaction and numbers, not just numbers not just costumer satisfaction. Red Zones make a big contribution, it just needs to be measured. So they can be turned green.</p>
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		<title>By: David Wallace</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2008/09/red-zonegreen-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-50913</link>
		<dc:creator>David Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/?p=343#comment-50913</guid>
		<description>Tara-

I had never heard of Naomi Klein’s latest work on Disaster Capitalism until I saw your Twitter yesterday. Since then I have read a lot of what she is saying. Very interesting ... and thank you. 

I think you know I worked for the Thatcher family through out the 80&#039;s and 90&#039;s, and I personally saw over $27 Billion (small in terms of our latest financial system bail-out) of privatization / public-private partnerships in the UK. We employed many of these approaches in Sugar Land as I was mayor, and it enabled us to have the second lowest tax rate in Texas (in our peer group) and create a vibrant economy (true effects of Supply-side Economics), yet we were able to lean on the private sector (the Green Zones) for a myriad of the municipal services (the Red Zones) in which you reference in your blog. 

The citizens need to understand that as elected officials we MUST focus on providing the highest quality service, at the lowest possible price (tax rate). Sounds like a cute business mission statement, but it works in both the private and public sectors.

I agree with you that the Yin and Yang of it need to be kept in place and both cost and profit centers rely on one another to exist and flourish. Just as in the case of public - private partnerships (where the Green and Red zones work hand-in-hand), both sectors MUST work together to create equilibrium so that the citizens do receive the highest quality service, at the lowest possible price.

Great intellectually stimulating blog. I appreciate it Tara.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tara-</p>
<p>I had never heard of Naomi Klein’s latest work on Disaster Capitalism until I saw your Twitter yesterday. Since then I have read a lot of what she is saying. Very interesting &#8230; and thank you. </p>
<p>I think you know I worked for the Thatcher family through out the 80&#8242;s and 90&#8242;s, and I personally saw over $27 Billion (small in terms of our latest financial system bail-out) of privatization / public-private partnerships in the UK. We employed many of these approaches in Sugar Land as I was mayor, and it enabled us to have the second lowest tax rate in Texas (in our peer group) and create a vibrant economy (true effects of Supply-side Economics), yet we were able to lean on the private sector (the Green Zones) for a myriad of the municipal services (the Red Zones) in which you reference in your blog. </p>
<p>The citizens need to understand that as elected officials we MUST focus on providing the highest quality service, at the lowest possible price (tax rate). Sounds like a cute business mission statement, but it works in both the private and public sectors.</p>
<p>I agree with you that the Yin and Yang of it need to be kept in place and both cost and profit centers rely on one another to exist and flourish. Just as in the case of public &#8211; private partnerships (where the Green and Red zones work hand-in-hand), both sectors MUST work together to create equilibrium so that the citizens do receive the highest quality service, at the lowest possible price.</p>
<p>Great intellectually stimulating blog. I appreciate it Tara.</p>
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