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	<title>Comments on: When you choose quantity over quality, it ain&#8217;t community-positive</title>
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	<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/</link>
	<description>life uncommon</description>
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		<title>By: links for 2007-07-05 &#171; Cui&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-46984</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2007-07-05 &#171; Cui&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 03:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-46984</guid>
		<description>[...] ::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon Â» When you choose quantity over quality, it ainâ€™t community-po... (tags: few.vs.many marketing)       Posted by allencui Filed in bookmarks [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon Â» When you choose quantity over quality, it ainâ€™t community-po&#8230; (tags: few.vs.many marketing)       Posted by allencui Filed in bookmarks [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bright Meadow &#187; Wikis, Screen Names and Authority</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-42830</link>
		<dc:creator>Bright Meadow &#187; Wikis, Screen Names and Authority</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 07:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-42830</guid>
		<description>[...] one post is Tara Hunt. However, a few of the following have stuck in the bookmarks folder lately - When you choose quantity over quality, it ain&#8217;t community positive The insidious danger of danger Communities and Heated Forums Case Study: Data [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] one post is Tara Hunt. However, a few of the following have stuck in the bookmarks folder lately &#8211; When you choose quantity over quality, it ain&#8217;t community positive The insidious danger of danger Communities and Heated Forums Case Study: Data [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Awesome links &#171; GiddleBits</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-41511</link>
		<dc:creator>Awesome links &#171; GiddleBits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-41511</guid>
		<description>[...] has put out not just one, but two great posts on communities over this past week. Both are worth checking [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has put out not just one, but two great posts on communities over this past week. Both are worth checking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brent Toderash</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-41221</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Toderash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-41221</guid>
		<description>I think perhaps we aren&#039;t presupposing the same type of community.  Specific objectives exist for the establishing a community &#8212; if you want a small community of highly-participatory members, I think what you&#039;re saying makes total sense.  If you want a larger community and are willing to have semi-active members as well as highly involved ones, then you probably need to accept a longer timeframe in which to build it or cast a wider net.  One way to do that is by allowing some version of guest membership so that the marginal involvement can draw in those most suited to the community.  Even The Well does this.  The guest membership barriers are set very low, with incentive to proceed to full membership if the community experience is a positive one.

Blogs, fwiw, could be considered &lt;em&gt;a kind&lt;/em&gt; of community, but not the full-bore version of one as we&#039;d like to imagine it. &lt;em&gt;;^)&lt;/em&gt;  I only reference them as an example of (in most cases) low barriers to participation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think perhaps we aren&#8217;t presupposing the same type of community.  Specific objectives exist for the establishing a community &#8212; if you want a small community of highly-participatory members, I think what you&#8217;re saying makes total sense.  If you want a larger community and are willing to have semi-active members as well as highly involved ones, then you probably need to accept a longer timeframe in which to build it or cast a wider net.  One way to do that is by allowing some version of guest membership so that the marginal involvement can draw in those most suited to the community.  Even The Well does this.  The guest membership barriers are set very low, with incentive to proceed to full membership if the community experience is a positive one.</p>
<p>Blogs, fwiw, could be considered <em>a kind</em> of community, but not the full-bore version of one as we&#8217;d like to imagine it. <em>;^)</em>  I only reference them as an example of (in most cases) low barriers to participation.</p>
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		<title>By: miss rogue</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-41025</link>
		<dc:creator>miss rogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 03:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-41025</guid>
		<description>&quot;Do I really need one more login for a site I may only use twice, or which promise â€œbenefitsâ€ I donâ€™t want?&quot;

This is exactly what proves my point.

Certainly, lower the barriers to entry if you want &#039;drop in&#039; comments and casual fly-bys, but if you are looking for a &#039;community&#039;, this is not the way to go.

Oh...and I don&#039;t think there are many blogs we can actually call &#039;communities&#039;...unless they are dictatorial ones. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Do I really need one more login for a site I may only use twice, or which promise â€œbenefitsâ€ I donâ€™t want?&#8221;</p>
<p>This is exactly what proves my point.</p>
<p>Certainly, lower the barriers to entry if you want &#8216;drop in&#8217; comments and casual fly-bys, but if you are looking for a &#8216;community&#8217;, this is not the way to go.</p>
<p>Oh&#8230;and I don&#8217;t think there are many blogs we can actually call &#8216;communities&#8217;&#8230;unless they are dictatorial ones. <img src='http://www.horsepigcow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brent Toderash</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-40946</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent Toderash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-40946</guid>
		<description>Tara,

Good thoughts but I&#039;m not on quite the same page concerning site registration... I&#039;ve gone to comment in places before and then just not bothered because of registration requirements.  Do I really need one more login for a site I may only use twice, or which promise &quot;benefits&quot; I don&#039;t want?  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bugmenot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BugMeNot&lt;/a&gt;, here I come.  Like your blog, mine, and 2 million others, I&#039;m asked to leave my name and email address to comment... but I don&#039;t have to sign up for anything.  It&#039;s impersonal only if I insist upon spoofing it.

For my part, referring to your first diagram, I think the visitor-to-customer shift needs to be made as easy as possible, and the customer-to-contributor shift only a bit less so.  If the &quot;difficulty&quot; in moving from left to right in your diagram increases as you progress, I think it retains the value that you describe but means it&#039;s easy to play in the sandbox and move on if you decide not to dig deeper.  End result, higher quality membership in the passionate team members because you started with a larger sample.  Quality and quantity are not always exclusive... sometimes it&#039;s just a false dichotomy.  The real insight is in the process of extracting quality from quantity.

I do agree that an increased barrier to entry tends to increase perceived value... to the point where based on your comments, I promptly headed off to The Well to see what that was all about.  Still, this should happen farther to the right, not at first contact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tara,</p>
<p>Good thoughts but I&#8217;m not on quite the same page concerning site registration&#8230; I&#8217;ve gone to comment in places before and then just not bothered because of registration requirements.  Do I really need one more login for a site I may only use twice, or which promise &#8220;benefits&#8221; I don&#8217;t want?  <a href="http://www.bugmenot.com/" rel="nofollow">BugMeNot</a>, here I come.  Like your blog, mine, and 2 million others, I&#8217;m asked to leave my name and email address to comment&#8230; but I don&#8217;t have to sign up for anything.  It&#8217;s impersonal only if I insist upon spoofing it.</p>
<p>For my part, referring to your first diagram, I think the visitor-to-customer shift needs to be made as easy as possible, and the customer-to-contributor shift only a bit less so.  If the &#8220;difficulty&#8221; in moving from left to right in your diagram increases as you progress, I think it retains the value that you describe but means it&#8217;s easy to play in the sandbox and move on if you decide not to dig deeper.  End result, higher quality membership in the passionate team members because you started with a larger sample.  Quality and quantity are not always exclusive&#8230; sometimes it&#8217;s just a false dichotomy.  The real insight is in the process of extracting quality from quantity.</p>
<p>I do agree that an increased barrier to entry tends to increase perceived value&#8230; to the point where based on your comments, I promptly headed off to The Well to see what that was all about.  Still, this should happen farther to the right, not at first contact.</p>
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		<title>By: Bright Meadow &#187; Sunday Roast: Well then, this is a day when I feel good to be me</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-40901</link>
		<dc:creator>Bright Meadow &#187; Sunday Roast: Well then, this is a day when I feel good to be me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-40901</guid>
		<description>[...] whether you need sign-ins or not on wikis - I bring your attention, if I may, to paragraph four of this article: Donâ€™t get me wrong. I am a bit concerned about the amount of data Google has on me, but my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] whether you need sign-ins or not on wikis &#8211; I bring your attention, if I may, to paragraph four of this article: Donâ€™t get me wrong. I am a bit concerned about the amount of data Google has on me, but my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nollind Whachell</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-40645</link>
		<dc:creator>Nollind Whachell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 06:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-40645</guid>
		<description>&quot;I donâ€™t know if there has been a study done, but Iâ€™d expect that the closer knit communities have higher barriers to entry. I had to have a phone conversation to get on The Well! It made it feel way more substantial.&quot;

Totally agree. And because of this I&#039;ve been noticing something very strange. If you remember reading Small Pieces Loosely Joined, David Weinberger mentions the Web being able to bend and break time and space. Well what I&#039;m noticing is that some of the best ways to create a real &quot;feeling&quot; of online community is by re-establishing these &quot;barriers&quot; of time and space.

BTW you might also find iA Design&#039;s &lt;b&gt;access rights&lt;/b&gt; diagram interesting in their article on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.informationarchitects.jp/newspaper-wiki-schematics&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Newspaper Wiki Schematics&lt;/a&gt;. I think it&#039;s a good way to increase a users access rights the more committed they become in helping the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I donâ€™t know if there has been a study done, but Iâ€™d expect that the closer knit communities have higher barriers to entry. I had to have a phone conversation to get on The Well! It made it feel way more substantial.&#8221;</p>
<p>Totally agree. And because of this I&#8217;ve been noticing something very strange. If you remember reading Small Pieces Loosely Joined, David Weinberger mentions the Web being able to bend and break time and space. Well what I&#8217;m noticing is that some of the best ways to create a real &#8220;feeling&#8221; of online community is by re-establishing these &#8220;barriers&#8221; of time and space.</p>
<p>BTW you might also find iA Design&#8217;s <b>access rights</b> diagram interesting in their article on <a href="http://www.informationarchitects.jp/newspaper-wiki-schematics" rel="nofollow">Newspaper Wiki Schematics</a>. I think it&#8217;s a good way to increase a users access rights the more committed they become in helping the community.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Lampert</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-40592</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Lampert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-40592</guid>
		<description>Quality vs quantity is certainly a tough balance when it comes to communities.  A strong focus on quality will lead to a tight-knit community.  In many cases, elitist would be a good description.  For example, a site like YouTube would never be able to go viral if they focussed on the quality of the submissions (through barriers of entry past the sign-up, such as moderation).  In a long-tail world, I think  the challenge is allowing for quantity while enabling the quality to rise to the top, and even allowing the user to decide on what quality is based on their interests.  YouTube does this through channels, related videos, tracking other users&#039; favorites, etc. 

Also, what is &quot;co-friending&quot;?  It must be obvious but I don&#039;t have a clue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quality vs quantity is certainly a tough balance when it comes to communities.  A strong focus on quality will lead to a tight-knit community.  In many cases, elitist would be a good description.  For example, a site like YouTube would never be able to go viral if they focussed on the quality of the submissions (through barriers of entry past the sign-up, such as moderation).  In a long-tail world, I think  the challenge is allowing for quantity while enabling the quality to rise to the top, and even allowing the user to decide on what quality is based on their interests.  YouTube does this through channels, related videos, tracking other users&#8217; favorites, etc. </p>
<p>Also, what is &#8220;co-friending&#8221;?  It must be obvious but I don&#8217;t have a clue.</p>
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		<title>By: alan p</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/comment-page-1/#comment-40591</link>
		<dc:creator>alan p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/14/when-you-choose-quantity-over-quality-it-aint-community-positive/#comment-40591</guid>
		<description>@ Rick...you are right, there is clearly some tipping point - some promise of value in the community - that will make a user prepared to go through the hassle of a sign in process. I was using blogs as an example where the value is by and large not enough, and the insistence of the blogger on sign-in will just lead to them being passsed on the roadside

I think the underlying issue is that its an asymmetric market - ie as a potential user I can&#039;t tell which communities are great or cr*p from outside before signup (unless they are very well known), so to an extent I discount them all - and there are now a lot of them - so those with too stringent an entry barrier compared to the visible benefit (and the rest) will just get walked past in the main.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Rick&#8230;you are right, there is clearly some tipping point &#8211; some promise of value in the community &#8211; that will make a user prepared to go through the hassle of a sign in process. I was using blogs as an example where the value is by and large not enough, and the insistence of the blogger on sign-in will just lead to them being passsed on the roadside</p>
<p>I think the underlying issue is that its an asymmetric market &#8211; ie as a potential user I can&#8217;t tell which communities are great or cr*p from outside before signup (unless they are very well known), so to an extent I discount them all &#8211; and there are now a lot of them &#8211; so those with too stringent an entry barrier compared to the visible benefit (and the rest) will just get walked past in the main.</p>
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