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	<title>Comments on: Nazis, Censorship and Control: community hot buttons</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/</link>
	<description>a world uncommon</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:03:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: letters</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-47218</link>
		<dc:creator>letters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-47218</guid>
		<description>Late to this post because I&#039;m visiting your blog for the first time.

As a resident of Germany I take great offense at the word Nazi and bristle when I hear accusations thrown.  The corollary of Godwin&#039;s Law is that the first person to accuse the other of being a Nazi is universally accepted as having lost the argument.

What I can&#039;t stand on the internet is once-useful forums which have gotten bogged down in useless chatter and pointless bickering between the regulars.  The Lonely Planet Thorn Tree had a politics section which got so bad, they shut it down, so the regulars hived themselves off to a separate server and are still there, engaged in their silly cross-talk and blabber.  It makes you wonder how much these people actually accomplish in any given day.

That said, let them go at it.  No censorship!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Late to this post because I&#8217;m visiting your blog for the first time.</p>
<p>As a resident of Germany I take great offense at the word Nazi and bristle when I hear accusations thrown.  The corollary of Godwin&#8217;s Law is that the first person to accuse the other of being a Nazi is universally accepted as having lost the argument.</p>
<p>What I can&#8217;t stand on the internet is once-useful forums which have gotten bogged down in useless chatter and pointless bickering between the regulars.  The Lonely Planet Thorn Tree had a politics section which got so bad, they shut it down, so the regulars hived themselves off to a separate server and are still there, engaged in their silly cross-talk and blabber.  It makes you wonder how much these people actually accomplish in any given day.</p>
<p>That said, let them go at it.  No censorship!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Clarke</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-43846</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-43846</guid>
		<description>Great post and an interesting process list.  I have a suspicion that a lot of people eagerly leaping on the &quot;Help! Nazi!&quot; bandwagon are a long way from No. 6 (Honor and Humiliation) and certainly don&#039;t engage with a &quot;Spiritual Bond&quot; (though I think I&#039;d like to see a fairly tight definition of what exactly a spiritual bond is).  To take Flickr as an example, an inner core of &#039;friends&#039; familiar with a photographers work may well react in line with No. 6.  For everyone else, I suspect they arrived at the party waving their hot buttons.  It&#039;s rather like those MySpace shrines devoted to murdered teenagers full of posts from people who are broken hearted about someone they&#039;ve never met.

Keeping my cool?  I&#039;m rubbish at it!  Best I can do is to realise how &lt;i&gt;comic&lt;/i&gt; I must appear.  The other, difficult thing is the interrogation of my anger - not why am I angry in the sense of a cause but why am I angry in the sense of what is it in me that &lt;i&gt;needs&lt;/i&gt; to be angry about this?  And why &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt;?  Usually it&#039;s fear of some kind.  But that&#039;s just me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post and an interesting process list.  I have a suspicion that a lot of people eagerly leaping on the &#8220;Help! Nazi!&#8221; bandwagon are a long way from No. 6 (Honor and Humiliation) and certainly don&#8217;t engage with a &#8220;Spiritual Bond&#8221; (though I think I&#8217;d like to see a fairly tight definition of what exactly a spiritual bond is).  To take Flickr as an example, an inner core of &#8216;friends&#8217; familiar with a photographers work may well react in line with No. 6.  For everyone else, I suspect they arrived at the party waving their hot buttons.  It&#8217;s rather like those MySpace shrines devoted to murdered teenagers full of posts from people who are broken hearted about someone they&#8217;ve never met.</p>
<p>Keeping my cool?  I&#8217;m rubbish at it!  Best I can do is to realise how <i>comic</i> I must appear.  The other, difficult thing is the interrogation of my anger &#8211; not why am I angry in the sense of a cause but why am I angry in the sense of what is it in me that <i>needs</i> to be angry about this?  And why <i>that</i>?  Usually it&#8217;s fear of some kind.  But that&#8217;s just me.</p>
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		<title>By: Warren Henning</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-42814</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Henning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 06:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-42814</guid>
		<description>Well:

- A lot of people work on open source stuff in their spare time. Just the development alone is all they can muster.

- Many of the better open source projects have excellent support/community - many people quietly go about the work of maintaining FAQs, mailing lists, software, organizing user groups and conferences, etc..

- Most Sourceforge projects never get anywhere and there&#039;s nothing to really support. I&#039;m always amazed at how many people apparently think they can singlehandedly create a 3D MMORPG comparable to Everquest or World of Warcraft. WoW took like 3 years to develop, and that was with a fairly large, top-notch team of game development pros!

- Plenty of proprietary software gets abandoned as well. The biggest one I can think of is Visual Basic 6.

- A lot of people who work on free software in their spare time love programming far more than creating software products.

To be clear, I know the pain (better than most people, I think) of using great free software that&#039;s rough around the edges (a concrete example: getting the software in question to work on Windows means 5-30 minutes of fucking around with Cygwin and Visual C++, and much of the documentation is non-English).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well:</p>
<p>- A lot of people work on open source stuff in their spare time. Just the development alone is all they can muster.</p>
<p>- Many of the better open source projects have excellent support/community &#8211; many people quietly go about the work of maintaining FAQs, mailing lists, software, organizing user groups and conferences, etc..</p>
<p>- Most Sourceforge projects never get anywhere and there&#8217;s nothing to really support. I&#8217;m always amazed at how many people apparently think they can singlehandedly create a 3D MMORPG comparable to Everquest or World of Warcraft. WoW took like 3 years to develop, and that was with a fairly large, top-notch team of game development pros!</p>
<p>- Plenty of proprietary software gets abandoned as well. The biggest one I can think of is Visual Basic 6.</p>
<p>- A lot of people who work on free software in their spare time love programming far more than creating software products.</p>
<p>To be clear, I know the pain (better than most people, I think) of using great free software that&#8217;s rough around the edges (a concrete example: getting the software in question to work on Windows means 5-30 minutes of fucking around with Cygwin and Visual C++, and much of the documentation is non-English).</p>
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		<title>By: miss rogue</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-42803</link>
		<dc:creator>miss rogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 06:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-42803</guid>
		<description>Is that from my twitter? I think I typed it wrong. It was supposed to be: &quot;Don&#039;t &lt;em&gt;just&lt;/em&gt; do open source, do open development.&quot; It was from a FOO session where someone was talking about all of the code that is dumped on SourceForge that isn&#039;t supported or worth much. Many companies open source projects because they want a PR push, not because they want to develop something positive and openly in a community.

Now...ironically, you slightly over-reacted on a post where I talk about communities over-reacting. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that from my twitter? I think I typed it wrong. It was supposed to be: &#8220;Don&#8217;t <em>just</em> do open source, do open development.&#8221; It was from a FOO session where someone was talking about all of the code that is dumped on SourceForge that isn&#8217;t supported or worth much. Many companies open source projects because they want a PR push, not because they want to develop something positive and openly in a community.</p>
<p>Now&#8230;ironically, you slightly over-reacted on a post where I talk about communities over-reacting. <img src='http://www.horsepigcow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Warren Henning</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-42798</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren Henning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 05:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-42798</guid>
		<description>http://twitter.com/missrogue/statuses/117707762

&quot;Don&#039;t do open source, do open development.&quot;

What the fuck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://twitter.com/missrogue/statuses/117707762" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/missrogue/statuses/117707762</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Don&#8217;t do open source, do open development.&#8221;</p>
<p>What the fuck?</p>
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		<title>By: Social Synergy &#187; Virtual Community Anger</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-41503</link>
		<dc:creator>Social Synergy &#187; Virtual Community Anger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-41503</guid>
		<description>[...] Hunt has an insightful post about emotional involvement in virtual communities. She refers to a this image posted on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hunt has an insightful post about emotional involvement in virtual communities. She refers to a this image posted on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: deb</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-41332</link>
		<dc:creator>deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-41332</guid>
		<description>From what I can gather, the flickr controversy is about the introduction of &quot;safety filters&quot; in flickr. Some images that are deemed &quot;unsafe&quot; are greyed out, and when you click on one, you are told it is &quot;outside the safety zone&quot; and are asked if you really want to see it.

People in Germany with a yahoo.de account are not given the option to click through the safety filter to see the images. This apparently is because German law is much more strict about these sorts of things, and Yahoo Germany have done this apparently to operate within the laws of that country. (I have no idea about German law, so can&#039;t comment on this).

I&#039;ve been watching with growing horror at the proliferation of these sorts of protest images across the flickr landscape. 

Even among contacts and friends that I like and respect... they have jumped on the bandwagon. I suspect many people do not even understand the technicalities of the issues. They have just joined the crowd because, well, everyone must be against censorship, mustn&#039;t they?

A couple of contacts of mine who dared to speak out in opposition - asking people to think and understand the issues first - were verbally attacked in their photostreams. One of these contacts just made all his images friends-only so that he would no longer be attacked.

I find your post extremely helpful in contextualising and understanding the behaviour that is going on. 

For me personally, I am by nature quiet and introspective, and suspicious of this kind of mass frenzy, so tend to step back and think before (and if) making any sort of response one way or the other in these situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I can gather, the flickr controversy is about the introduction of &#8220;safety filters&#8221; in flickr. Some images that are deemed &#8220;unsafe&#8221; are greyed out, and when you click on one, you are told it is &#8220;outside the safety zone&#8221; and are asked if you really want to see it.</p>
<p>People in Germany with a yahoo.de account are not given the option to click through the safety filter to see the images. This apparently is because German law is much more strict about these sorts of things, and Yahoo Germany have done this apparently to operate within the laws of that country. (I have no idea about German law, so can&#8217;t comment on this).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been watching with growing horror at the proliferation of these sorts of protest images across the flickr landscape. </p>
<p>Even among contacts and friends that I like and respect&#8230; they have jumped on the bandwagon. I suspect many people do not even understand the technicalities of the issues. They have just joined the crowd because, well, everyone must be against censorship, mustn&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>A couple of contacts of mine who dared to speak out in opposition &#8211; asking people to think and understand the issues first &#8211; were verbally attacked in their photostreams. One of these contacts just made all his images friends-only so that he would no longer be attacked.</p>
<p>I find your post extremely helpful in contextualising and understanding the behaviour that is going on. </p>
<p>For me personally, I am by nature quiet and introspective, and suspicious of this kind of mass frenzy, so tend to step back and think before (and if) making any sort of response one way or the other in these situations.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Wilks</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-41280</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Wilks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/06/18/nazis-censorship-and-control-community-hot-buttons/#comment-41280</guid>
		<description>My community experience has mainly been with actual live in communities so some of it may not apply with an on-line community. The first thing is for you who ever you are to recognize you own hot buttons. When they come up in the conversation pause and recognize the hot button. Yeah its hard very hard but it is I guarantee worthwhile. You will learn more from what people say about your hot button than for hours of friendly talk. But you won&#039;t learn if you don&#039;t listen. 
If you are seeing someone else being hit by a hot button and starting to rant. Again take a moment for yourself to make sure it is not a hot issue for you one way or another. Now try and introduce a cooling question. Even if it seems stupid. Such as &quot;Hey just what do you want to have happen. Usually a hot button means the heated one wants something to happen and yet has never really tried to explain just what he/she wants. This happens more I think with men than women. Men, at least in my experience often seem to assume every one of course knows what I mean. Asking what they mean can get you blasted for being an idiot but may also get the ranter to explain what they really want this cools them off quiet fast.
hope that helps a little.
Roger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My community experience has mainly been with actual live in communities so some of it may not apply with an on-line community. The first thing is for you who ever you are to recognize you own hot buttons. When they come up in the conversation pause and recognize the hot button. Yeah its hard very hard but it is I guarantee worthwhile. You will learn more from what people say about your hot button than for hours of friendly talk. But you won&#8217;t learn if you don&#8217;t listen.<br />
If you are seeing someone else being hit by a hot button and starting to rant. Again take a moment for yourself to make sure it is not a hot issue for you one way or another. Now try and introduce a cooling question. Even if it seems stupid. Such as &#8220;Hey just what do you want to have happen. Usually a hot button means the heated one wants something to happen and yet has never really tried to explain just what he/she wants. This happens more I think with men than women. Men, at least in my experience often seem to assume every one of course knows what I mean. Asking what they mean can get you blasted for being an idiot but may also get the ranter to explain what they really want this cools them off quiet fast.<br />
hope that helps a little.<br />
Roger</p>
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