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	<title>Comments on: Subversion as a Marketing Tool</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/</link>
	<description>a world uncommon</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:03:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff Barr&#8217;s Blog &#187; Links for Friday, June 1, 2007</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-36902</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Barr&#8217;s Blog &#187; Links for Friday, June 1, 2007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 17:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-36902</guid>
		<description>[...] Tara Hunt: Subversion As A Marketing Tool - &#8220;It seemed to me that the appearance of clued in was much more important than being clued in. And could you blame them? I mean, being clued in is a terribly time-consuming, drawn-out process that takes a long period of humility, pain and general deprogramming. Whereas, appearances are pretty simple. All you need are a stack of gapingvoid t-shirts and a heartfelt speech.&#8220; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tara Hunt: Subversion As A Marketing Tool &#8211; &#8220;It seemed to me that the appearance of clued in was much more important than being clued in. And could you blame them? I mean, being clued in is a terribly time-consuming, drawn-out process that takes a long period of humility, pain and general deprogramming. Whereas, appearances are pretty simple. All you need are a stack of gapingvoid t-shirts and a heartfelt speech.&#8220; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: steve clayton</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-34626</link>
		<dc:creator>steve clayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 16:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-34626</guid>
		<description>I guess when Hugh first penned the Blue Monster he never thought it would spread so far and wide. I didn&#039;t when he sent it to me and 3 other folks last year. What&#039;s been interesting is to watch how it has spread and from where - more external to Microsoft than internal initially but now it&#039;s starting to show up more within Microsoft. 

This is where it could get tricky and where it *could* be subverted by groups wanting some of the Blue Monster &quot;kool aid&quot;. If that happens I for one will be disappointed but I honestly don&#039;t see any groups within Microsoft ready to take the risk and use this in any mainstream way. Thankfully Hugh made it too off piste else it would have drowned by now in some cheap shot marketing gig. 

This started at the grassroots and will grow bottom up, not top down. As I&#039;ve said in many other blogs, I keep waiting for the brand police to call me and ask me &quot;wtf&quot; about this. It&#039;ll be a shame if it comes to that but it&#039;d be more of a shame if it gets bastardised for some quick, cheap, new age coolness for some group or other within Microsoft. I&#039;m a little sad that it was used in the way it was at Web 2.0 Expo and will guard against that but given the cartoon is freely available and not owned by me (or Hugh actually) we run the risk of it being mis-used. I&#039;ve already stopped a few of those efforts in the hope that it&#039;s growth will continue to be organic, bottom up by people who actually take the time to understand the message behind it. 

This thing was born out of a few people wanting to see a change. Some internal, some external. I hope it continues that way and it&#039;s essence doesn&#039;t drown in marketing. I don&#039;t work in marketing...never have, probably never will so I have a vested interest in that not happening. 

Thanks for raising the discussion Tara - it needed to be aired now to help keep the Blue Monster untarnished. For as long as we can anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess when Hugh first penned the Blue Monster he never thought it would spread so far and wide. I didn&#8217;t when he sent it to me and 3 other folks last year. What&#8217;s been interesting is to watch how it has spread and from where &#8211; more external to Microsoft than internal initially but now it&#8217;s starting to show up more within Microsoft. </p>
<p>This is where it could get tricky and where it *could* be subverted by groups wanting some of the Blue Monster &#8220;kool aid&#8221;. If that happens I for one will be disappointed but I honestly don&#8217;t see any groups within Microsoft ready to take the risk and use this in any mainstream way. Thankfully Hugh made it too off piste else it would have drowned by now in some cheap shot marketing gig. </p>
<p>This started at the grassroots and will grow bottom up, not top down. As I&#8217;ve said in many other blogs, I keep waiting for the brand police to call me and ask me &#8220;wtf&#8221; about this. It&#8217;ll be a shame if it comes to that but it&#8217;d be more of a shame if it gets bastardised for some quick, cheap, new age coolness for some group or other within Microsoft. I&#8217;m a little sad that it was used in the way it was at Web 2.0 Expo and will guard against that but given the cartoon is freely available and not owned by me (or Hugh actually) we run the risk of it being mis-used. I&#8217;ve already stopped a few of those efforts in the hope that it&#8217;s growth will continue to be organic, bottom up by people who actually take the time to understand the message behind it. </p>
<p>This thing was born out of a few people wanting to see a change. Some internal, some external. I hope it continues that way and it&#8217;s essence doesn&#8217;t drown in marketing. I don&#8217;t work in marketing&#8230;never have, probably never will so I have a vested interest in that not happening. </p>
<p>Thanks for raising the discussion Tara &#8211; it needed to be aired now to help keep the Blue Monster untarnished. For as long as we can anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Henderson</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-34279</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Henderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 20:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-34279</guid>
		<description>This is a smart post because it highlights the basic problems large companies have, and their natural, vs learned responses to disruption.  Microsoft have the Mark Kay approach still ... rah rah, lets all hold hands and circle the wagons.  I think GM do too, but maybe some in there are getting it.

My observation have just finished 30 years with one such organization (a Bank) is that the problem lies in organizational inertia.  Every day going to the work with the same people, getting the same memo&#039;s (yes paper memo&#039;s) from the same HQ.  When new and disruptive things don&#039;t fit within the realm of that space, everyone resorts back to what they know, and what they know, is what they have been told.  

Everyone is smart in isolation, and many know the the answer, yet everyone acts collectively as the organisation expects them to ... groupthink.

Microsoft will only be changed from the inside, by people with no stake in the old ways, and who are sufficiently knowledgeable about the new.  Oh, and a mind transplant to Ballmer might help - not the most open minded chap in the world :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a smart post because it highlights the basic problems large companies have, and their natural, vs learned responses to disruption.  Microsoft have the Mark Kay approach still &#8230; rah rah, lets all hold hands and circle the wagons.  I think GM do too, but maybe some in there are getting it.</p>
<p>My observation have just finished 30 years with one such organization (a Bank) is that the problem lies in organizational inertia.  Every day going to the work with the same people, getting the same memo&#8217;s (yes paper memo&#8217;s) from the same HQ.  When new and disruptive things don&#8217;t fit within the realm of that space, everyone resorts back to what they know, and what they know, is what they have been told.  </p>
<p>Everyone is smart in isolation, and many know the the answer, yet everyone acts collectively as the organisation expects them to &#8230; groupthink.</p>
<p>Microsoft will only be changed from the inside, by people with no stake in the old ways, and who are sufficiently knowledgeable about the new.  Oh, and a mind transplant to Ballmer might help &#8211; not the most open minded chap in the world <img src='http://www.horsepigcow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Social Synergy</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-33895</link>
		<dc:creator>Social Synergy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 18:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-33895</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;What Kind Of Change Are People Ready For, Right Now?...&lt;/strong&gt;

Link: ::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon Â» Subversion as a Marketing Tool. Comment left at Horse Pig Cow: (this is just a general rant, not addressed to anyone in particular) This is a game that&#039;s been going on since the beginning of...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>What Kind Of Change Are People Ready For, Right Now?&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Link: ::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon Â» Subversion as a Marketing Tool. Comment left at Horse Pig Cow: (this is just a general rant, not addressed to anyone in particular) This is a game that&#8217;s been going on since the beginning of&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Rose</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-33890</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 18:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-33890</guid>
		<description>(this is just a general rant, not addressed to anyone in particular)

This is a game that&#039;s been going on since the beginning of mass media. Check http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/259919.html from 1997 for an overview from the 1960&#039;s to now.

The problem with subversion, is that it is always subverting the mainstream. So, it&#039;s always too complex, complicated, and cutting edge for the majority to make use of in any form except a watered-down myth used for marketing mainstream goods and services.  

One lesson that I&#039;ve taken away from the study of Calre W. Graves&#039;s  theories about human nature http://clarewgraves.com is that people can only change in ways that they are ready for, and only when they are ready for change.

Most of &quot;mainstream&quot; developed world society is not ready for the type of change that would allow them to adopt social norms, technologies, and mediums that resemble those used by cultural &quot;subversives&quot;. However, I think there is evidence that many people in &quot;mainstream&quot; developed world society &lt;b&gt;are&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;partially&lt;/i&gt; ready a change that &lt;i&gt;partially&lt;/i&gt; resembles the technology, social norms, and mediums of cultural &quot;subversives&quot;. Microsoft realizes this, and they use it to capitalize on this readiness for change. But, microsoft &lt;i&gt;offers&lt;/i&gt; the technology, mediums, and social norms of the existing &quot;mainstream&quot; as a it&#039;s catalyst for change in it&#039;s realm of media/technology. This can fool some people for a while, but eventually the picture becomes clear. 

So, how do people who are not just trying to capitalize on &quot;mainstream&quot; societies readiness for change help contribute to something that affects real change?

* Recognize the existence of unique local conditions

* Figure out what types of change people on local levels are ready for.

* &lt;b&gt;Realize that the biggest catalyst for change will not be a technology, nor even a medium, but rather a new set of social norms that people will use to voluntarily co-govern how they will use those technologies and mediums&lt;/b&gt;

* Create you technologies and mediums in ways that are flexible enough to allow people to easily use them within their unique context, in ways they are ready for right now, to solve problems they actually care about.

If you really need a macro trend to look at, then realize that the social norm that is emerging in many areas is that people are starting to trend to recognize more and more natural and human created resources as a &quot;commons&quot;. And, they are starting to apply  voluntary rules to co-govern these commons. And, perhaps most importantly &lt;b&gt;THIS&lt;/b&gt; is a type of change that a huge amount of people &lt;b&gt;ARE&lt;/b&gt; ready for, &lt;b&gt;NOW&lt;/b&gt;....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(this is just a general rant, not addressed to anyone in particular)</p>
<p>This is a game that&#8217;s been going on since the beginning of mass media. Check <a href="http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/259919.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/259919.html</a> from 1997 for an overview from the 1960&#8242;s to now.</p>
<p>The problem with subversion, is that it is always subverting the mainstream. So, it&#8217;s always too complex, complicated, and cutting edge for the majority to make use of in any form except a watered-down myth used for marketing mainstream goods and services.  </p>
<p>One lesson that I&#8217;ve taken away from the study of Calre W. Graves&#8217;s  theories about human nature <a href="http://clarewgraves.com" rel="nofollow">http://clarewgraves.com</a> is that people can only change in ways that they are ready for, and only when they are ready for change.</p>
<p>Most of &#8220;mainstream&#8221; developed world society is not ready for the type of change that would allow them to adopt social norms, technologies, and mediums that resemble those used by cultural &#8220;subversives&#8221;. However, I think there is evidence that many people in &#8220;mainstream&#8221; developed world society <b>are</b> <i>partially</i> ready a change that <i>partially</i> resembles the technology, social norms, and mediums of cultural &#8220;subversives&#8221;. Microsoft realizes this, and they use it to capitalize on this readiness for change. But, microsoft <i>offers</i> the technology, mediums, and social norms of the existing &#8220;mainstream&#8221; as a it&#8217;s catalyst for change in it&#8217;s realm of media/technology. This can fool some people for a while, but eventually the picture becomes clear. </p>
<p>So, how do people who are not just trying to capitalize on &#8220;mainstream&#8221; societies readiness for change help contribute to something that affects real change?</p>
<p>* Recognize the existence of unique local conditions</p>
<p>* Figure out what types of change people on local levels are ready for.</p>
<p>* <b>Realize that the biggest catalyst for change will not be a technology, nor even a medium, but rather a new set of social norms that people will use to voluntarily co-govern how they will use those technologies and mediums</b></p>
<p>* Create you technologies and mediums in ways that are flexible enough to allow people to easily use them within their unique context, in ways they are ready for right now, to solve problems they actually care about.</p>
<p>If you really need a macro trend to look at, then realize that the social norm that is emerging in many areas is that people are starting to trend to recognize more and more natural and human created resources as a &#8220;commons&#8221;. And, they are starting to apply  voluntary rules to co-govern these commons. And, perhaps most importantly <b>THIS</b> is a type of change that a huge amount of people <b>ARE</b> ready for, <b>NOW</b>&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Musing about outsides and insides &#124; confused of calcutta</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-33863</link>
		<dc:creator>Musing about outsides and insides &#124; confused of calcutta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 16:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-33863</guid>
		<description>[...] a post headed Tara and the Blue Monster, Hugh discusses Tara Hunt&#8217;s comments on Microsoft&#8217;s adoption of the Blue Monster; Tara&#8217;s scepticism is something [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a post headed Tara and the Blue Monster, Hugh discusses Tara Hunt&#8217;s comments on Microsoft&#8217;s adoption of the Blue Monster; Tara&#8217;s scepticism is something [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dave mcclure</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-33748</link>
		<dc:creator>dave mcclure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 09:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-33748</guid>
		<description>hmm. i&#039;m with Hugh on this one. how about option #4:

Microsoft realizes there is some truth in there, and RATHER THAN TAKE IT AS A WEAKNESS, they turn it around and USE IT AS A STRENGTH.  

in other words, they acknowledge the truth of occasionally acting monstrous, perhaps a bit evil, perhaps a bit lumbering goliath, the &quot;800-lb gorilla&quot; label that has become so much cliche... much the same Leviathan as the IBM they tricked out of hundreds of billions of market cap over 15 years ago.

and yet, for those of us geeks who&#039;ve been through the times when Microsoft was so incredibly dominant -- and to some extent still is -- there actually is some unshakeable &amp; demonstrable brand recognition and value there.

i mean, who WOULDN&#039;T be a little afraid of Microsoft, if they decided to go after your market / niche / platform?  they DO have a history of inexorable extend-embrace-devour -- RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.  YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED -- whoops, sorry, an inexorable BORG-ishness that is... well, hell i&#039;ll say it... admirable.

i love the campaign.  it&#039;s great.  it&#039;s honest.  it&#039;s powerful.  it reminds me of how fierce a competitor Microsoft can be, and how significant its impact once it focuses on a target.

is that bad?  not completely.  

is it funny or humorous?  you bet.  i snicker each time i see it.

is it accurate?  absolutely.

is it memorable?  utterly.

nice job hugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm. i&#8217;m with Hugh on this one. how about option #4:</p>
<p>Microsoft realizes there is some truth in there, and RATHER THAN TAKE IT AS A WEAKNESS, they turn it around and USE IT AS A STRENGTH.  </p>
<p>in other words, they acknowledge the truth of occasionally acting monstrous, perhaps a bit evil, perhaps a bit lumbering goliath, the &#8220;800-lb gorilla&#8221; label that has become so much cliche&#8230; much the same Leviathan as the IBM they tricked out of hundreds of billions of market cap over 15 years ago.</p>
<p>and yet, for those of us geeks who&#8217;ve been through the times when Microsoft was so incredibly dominant &#8212; and to some extent still is &#8212; there actually is some unshakeable &amp; demonstrable brand recognition and value there.</p>
<p>i mean, who WOULDN&#8217;T be a little afraid of Microsoft, if they decided to go after your market / niche / platform?  they DO have a history of inexorable extend-embrace-devour &#8212; RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.  YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED &#8212; whoops, sorry, an inexorable BORG-ishness that is&#8230; well, hell i&#8217;ll say it&#8230; admirable.</p>
<p>i love the campaign.  it&#8217;s great.  it&#8217;s honest.  it&#8217;s powerful.  it reminds me of how fierce a competitor Microsoft can be, and how significant its impact once it focuses on a target.</p>
<p>is that bad?  not completely.  </p>
<p>is it funny or humorous?  you bet.  i snicker each time i see it.</p>
<p>is it accurate?  absolutely.</p>
<p>is it memorable?  utterly.</p>
<p>nice job hugh.</p>
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		<title>By: hugh macleod</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-33628</link>
		<dc:creator>hugh macleod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 01:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-33628</guid>
		<description>Hey Tara, thanks for the feedback.

You do know there was a fourth point that you completely overlooked, right?

All will be revealed, fret not ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tara, thanks for the feedback.</p>
<p>You do know there was a fourth point that you completely overlooked, right?</p>
<p>All will be revealed, fret not <img src='http://www.horsepigcow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mobmash blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2007-05-25</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-33611</link>
		<dc:creator>mobmash blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2007-05-25</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 00:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-33611</guid>
		<description>[...] ::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon Â» Subversion as a Marketing Tool (tags: marketing web2.0) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ::HorsePigCow:: marketing uncommon Â» Subversion as a Marketing Tool (tags: marketing web2.0) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-33520</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 19:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.horsepigcow.com/2007/05/23/subversion-as-a-marketing-tool/#comment-33520</guid>
		<description>&quot;A big smile, saying, â€œSee? Weâ€™re hip. Weâ€™re listening,â€ across their face.&quot;

Microsoft isn&#039;t fooling that many folks. &quot;Why sure, I&#039;ll take the free swag...&quot; and go hunt down an Apple or install Linux ;-)

...though, they may be fooling themselves. Which is totally their prerogative. Ah, well, they were alerted. (Me too. I see a massive sea change coming.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A big smile, saying, â€œSee? Weâ€™re hip. Weâ€™re listening,â€ across their face.&#8221;</p>
<p>Microsoft isn&#8217;t fooling that many folks. &#8220;Why sure, I&#8217;ll take the free swag&#8230;&#8221; and go hunt down an Apple or install Linux <img src='http://www.horsepigcow.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8230;though, they may be fooling themselves. Which is totally their prerogative. Ah, well, they were alerted. (Me too. I see a massive sea change coming.)</p>
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