Sometimes, being a PiC really sucks
[photo uploaded by ekai]
Isn't there a saying about "behind every man is an amazing woman?" or something akin? Times have changed...or have they?
This past weekend, Chris and I (as well as a huge number of other people) were behind a very successful WineCamp, yet, when reported by the media, Chris was the only one mentioned as being behind it. This happens all of the time with us. We talk about being "Partners in Crime" (that's what the PiC stands for - cat is out of the bag), but people most often credit Chris with our co-projects and either totally dismiss my involvement or chalk it up to being somewhat lesser.
Granted, Chris is louder than me (meaning he gets up and makes slightly more speeches). And, because he is a consultant now, he isn't tied down by a day job so he can afford to travel more and have more spontaneous meetings. But in the end, I put the same amount of ideas and work into our projects.
Should it matter? Should I just say, "Screw it. I'm doing work that matters, so who gives a damn if I'm credited or not"? Or, should it matter because every time a woman fades into the 'supporting role' behind her man, it reinforces the old stereotypes?
I'm not so aggressive on the points, either. When in Toronto, where I got to be the mini-celebrity at Mesh (I was asked to be a keynote, and Chris a panelist), I did what almost every woman I know does: I gave a huge amount of credit to my PiC on stage...in interviews...in every discussion I had. I even made sure he was physically included in various interviews...after one of which, the interviewer (who is awesome and I don't fault him at all for it) posts a photo of Chris, not me...not the two of us...to the article, which included insights and stories from our co-adventures. Heaven knows there are many photos of us to choose from.
Chris tells me I should be more aggressive, take more credit, etc. But that's not my style. I keep holding the faith that people will see the work for what it is and give it proper credit.
But the world we live in doesn't work like that. The most qualified person still doesn't always get the job and the person who dedicates her life to helping others doesn't always get credit. Good looking, middle class, white, heterosexual males still carry an advantage. Now, yes, they still have to prove themselves (and I'll tell you, Chris deserves all of the credit he gets ++), but they have less to prove to get there.
I've been watching as Chris and I team up and interact with people. When he speaks, people tend to listen a little more intently. When they ask questions, they more often ask him. Theoretically, I am more 'senior' than he is. I'm nearly 33 and have 7 years of work experience on him + I've had other diverse experiences that make my insights unique. I'm a single mom of a teenager. I've lived in two countries and several cities across them. I've been active in many different movements. I've won international awards for both the charity and the professional work I've done. I've done everything from being a bicycle courier to a disco dj to washing dishes to working in a used bookstore while volunteering my time to creating marketing programs for non-profits while going to school full-time and being a full-time single mom.
This doesn't make the stuff that Chris does worth anything less than me, but I do wonder how it is that I become invisible in these conversations.
Occassionally, Chris will step forward and say, "Hey, you should ask Tara to be part of this, too," which helps, but that doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things. Funny tidbit, one of the Net Squared panels I'm sitting on tomorrow originally didn't include me...they asked Chris...and the subject matter? Community based marketing. And even funnier, in the abstract posted to the website, they mentioned Pinko Marketing as a model to discuss. Chris actually suggested me. [note: Chris would never identify himself as marketing]
None of the above examples makes anyone bad or sexist...it's just a continuous perception problem that persists through changing times. And truly, I don't want to become an aggressive self-promoter. I want to continue doing positive work and feeling good about that, but at the same time, I see the opportunities that come from Chris being celebrated. This article and mention leads to that speaking engagement which leads to this contact being made which gets that done...and so on. I don't want to miss out on that, either. Besides, Mark Cuban says to be a whiner...and it seems to work for him.
And I also want to change this inequity for other women around me who have the same frustrations. So...what can be done? Where do we start?
:: another example of this is when others credited Ross Mayfield for DCamp, when Rashmi Sinha was the originator and core organizer [since adjusted].
24 Comments:
Mmm, yes, Tara. I know what you are referring too. It is somewhat pernicious too isn't it? And mind, the boys don't have to be Caucasian or good-looking so much to sop all the recognition inappropriately.
I tell you something. You do need to be heard as much as possible. Do stand up for yourself and what you contribute. It may take being more aggressive about it, but don't dwell on that. Because honestly, I don't think women (and I am one) presently have the option to let our work speak for itself. The propensity is for others to overlook unfortunately.
Okay, how to begin... I have a lot to say on this subject. I suppose I should start from the beginning.
I joined the LinuxChix mailing lists a while back, and really started paying attention last year. As I watched more and more posts, I got a feel for the dynamic of how women tend to interact with the world. There is very much a societal "push" for women to be "open", "accepting", and (the word of doom for a lot of women) "nice". Oh, "nice" can be a good thing. But it can also get you in trouble. You want to be nice and polite, so you don't ask for a salary that you're worth. (Men don't have a problem with this.) "Nice" means you give credit to Chris, but don't take any for yourself. And therein lies the problem -- not that you give the credit to Chris, but that the audience's perception of that is "Chris does all the work and Tara is a sidekick." You're seeing the side effects of not emphasizing your accomplishments -- you don't get the opportunities that Chris is getting, because Chris (and, in fact, men in general) will not hesitate to step up and take credit for what their accomplishments are.
Why is this the case? Two reasons. One, you have been trained as a woman in this society to be "nice", and that's holding you back from taking credit for your achievements. Two, you have not pushed yourself over that hump of being truly self-confident and loving yourself and who you are enough to really stand up and be PROUD of yourself. And girl, you have a LOT to be proud of... but you know what? No one is going to toot your horn as much as you will. I learned this at a business conference where we were taught to "language" our requests. Modesty gets you absolutely nowhere when you're standing in front of a bunch of potential investors, and you learn pretty quickly to elbow your way to the front of the crowd and say "HEY!! What I do MATTERS and I AM GREAT AT IT!!!!" And guess what? When you do that, and you are truly self-confident in what you have to offer, doors start to open and people listen.
Don't worry about Chris. You and I both know that he can stand well on his own! Use those elbows and that mouth and start telling the world how great you are. You ARE great. You know it. Now let everyone else know. And drop that silly "nice" facade. Let Chris handle his own PR. ;) You tell the world that you are great and watch it change around you. I know you well enough to know that you can do this... and once you start doing it, you'll never want to stop again, because you will see how many doors it opens.
Right now, the only thing holding you back from having those doors open is your fear of not being perceived as "nice." Forget it. It's a false pretense. Love yourself and others will love you.
--Erica, who owns the best damn web hosting company in San Jose (AND I LOVE IT!)
>>So...what can be done? Where do we start?
Well I don't know how effective it might be but start attending conffrences without chris . world is big enough with large enough number of communities and forums that both of you can be a part of the groups of your choice without any intersection .
but that is escapism i guess.
i can identify this as i have seen many of my female friends cribbing about it here in india . but even in developed country like US women suffer from this syndrome this come as a bit of shock for me .
i don't know whether i should mention it here or not but i can't resisit the temptation .
i am a part of pinko mailing list also . reading your post reminds me of a conversation at the pinko list where someone asked you for a coffe . that was a totally undesired comment off the agenda of list . at the least person should have sent you the invitation off-list . but you accepted it in a very casual way ( i don't know if you really had the cofee or not )
now thats the crux of problem people may give a bit of more credit to chris but i don't think they ask him out for coffee ? (or do they ??)
now thats the tradeoff you need to choose from . Coffee or Credit . you can't have both
good luck
It's not about being agressive. It's about power vs. force.
I know that as I white man, being heard may come more easily to me then to a woman. Yet I have seen plenty of examples of women, who are truly powerful.
So take the power into your own hands and stop whining. Marc Cuban says many things right, but not this. Complaining is taking the victim stance and actually giving your power away.
As a loyal reader of you blog. I experience you as a powerful woman so I hope you can be that even with a powerful man around.
www.billbaren.com/blog
That's a tough call. Personally, I can't stand over-agressive marketers. But I don't think it's an all or nothing proposition. I would strive to disassociate yourself by becoming more of an independant entity.
By always bringing Chris into the equation, you're diluting your own personal brand and giving the impression that you are somehow reliant on him. It might not be blatant, but it's implicit. If you give people an opportunity to believe that a woman is not a key "driving force" behind an initiative, they'll often take it.
It's not necessarily fair, but sadly it's true. Women have to work twice as hard to prove themselves.
That's a tough call. Personally, I can't stand over-agressive marketers. But I don't think it's an all or nothing proposition. I would strive to disassociate yourself by becoming more of an independant entity.
By always bringing Chris into the equation, you're diluting your own personal brand and giving the impression that you are somehow reliant on him. It might not be blatant, but it's implicit. If you give people an opportunity to believe that a woman is not a key "driving force" behind an initiative, they'll often take it.
It's not necessarily fair, but sadly it's true. Women have to work twice as hard to prove themselves.
"Well I don't know how effective it might be but start attending conffrences without chris . world is big enough with large enough number of communities and forums that both of you can be a part of the groups of your choice without any intersection. but that is escapism i guess."
I have to agree except for the last part. It's not escapism. It's reality. As a casual but regular reader, it seems that you mention Chris every other post. You have a talent for, and a habit of, branding things -- love 2.0, pinko, PiC, etc..... -- and your relationship with Chris has undoubtedly helped your brand, your credibility in the tech space, period.
The tough reality of it is that while Chris doesn't need Tara's brand to enhance his reputation in tech, your brand does benefit by association with a tech entrepreneur like Chris. EXCEPT that the tricky part is that this association is well-publicized (by you) love relationship. And that colors things. In positive and negative ways.
NOW, in the marketing space where the Tara name should be stronger, that's where I agree that you could stand to DETATCH yourself from the whole PiC/Chris-Love 2.0 thing. It drags him into places he doesn't need to be and diminishes "Tara" as needing Chris. It could appear clingy, as if you are fearful for each of you to be individuals in your own areas of expertise.
The other issue you talk about--the economic component of women's visibility online--is huge, and deserving of exploration beyond the tara and chris equation. It's age old. It's here. We've been fighting it. We win some, we lose some. I'm sure BlogHer will have a lot to offer on that topic in July, and it's a frequently discussed topic on the BlogHer site.
Shelley Powers has been discussing this phenomenon for years and years online, but I think it wore her out, and she's off regrouping.
Random thoughts, tough love, what have you. Best to you in sorting it out.
I had a similar experience with IIW. Robert Scoble posted about how great Phil's conference was. I had to write and inform him that he and I co-produced it - organized the venue the logistics of food and facilitated etc.
He corrected his post.
When we do the work in partnership with our "Good looking, middle class, white, heterosexual male" collegues we need to stand up and tell folks we did. Good job Tara.
Bummer. With all due respect to Chris and, for what's it's worth, you do have a higher Technorati ranking than him ;-).
Thanks everyone for your support.
@Jeneane...
Good, tough comment that I took to heart and thought about long and hard. Yes, you are right. I have to stop with this whole ChrisTara thing. It's less of a clingy thing and more of a hiding thing, though.
You see, I have a serious problem with self-promotion/congratulations, etc. I hate selling myself. It feels so disingenuous. So, in a team, what I do is that I sell my teammate - whether it be friends or lovers or family members or employers, etc. - and kinda hope that karma will bring it back around.
I know. Really bad strategy. It's the only way it seems genuine, though. My thinking is that, if I am doing something rockin', that the people who love me will see it and champion it for me. Problem is, well, like everyone keeps telling me, you are the only one that can toot your own horn.
So, next time I'm interviewed, I won't say, "Oh, gosh." and slough off compliments or the like and just say, "Thank you." and own them. For too long, I've said, "Oh...it's because I'm inspired by [insert friend/lover/employer/etc. here]."
And...for the record. Sure, Chris doesn't need Tara to help his brand, but I can build my own 'brand' in the tech space just fine. In fact, as Greg points out, my blog is more widely read (and by many tech people) and when I leave the U.S., it seems, I'm quite often more sought after than Chris (India, Canada, Germany, etc.) for speaking and interviews.
So...I guess...wtf am I bitching about then? ;)
Further to Jeneane's comment, the every-other-post-mentioning-Chris thing on your blog is hurting you. For one, when you were introduced at Mesh (I can't remember which white male it was that did the introduction), the speaker said something along the lines of "well, we know that she has a boyfriend now so won't be moving back to Toronto". I cringed for his gross assumption about a woman staying where her man puts her, but I also cringe when I read your blog sometimes. Move Love 2.0 elsewhere.
I think that's pretty much it, Sandy.
The clique thing of web 2.0 and the valley is hard enough for the "not-there" crowd to take. Add in the love is grand thing again and again and you're lucky the more hard hearted blogjocks aren't spray painting graffitti over here. The perception of being joined at the hip in love 2.0 bliss is... err... well... i think you get it. Thanks for taking me seriously and not writing me off as a bitch. I'm really very nice. Of course, I owe it all to the man behind the curtain... ;-)
I am going to be the A$$hole that comes out and says it......this is NOT a gender thing. This is a confidence, persona, charisma thing. I would bet my right arm that the fact that Chris might get more kudos than you is because he is more demonstrative in how he presents himself.
To riff on what has already been said, your "style" is apologetic and diminutive. If YOU want to get credit, stop talking about CHRIS. Stop apologizing for having YOUR opinion.
There is another factor in this. Someone has to lead. If you and Chris are in fact a team, one of you is going to get more spotlight. It just so happens it isn't you.
So...I guess...wtf am I bitching about then? ;)
This is the best question you asked. If you are a team, stop competing with Chris. Stop bitching about who is getting credit. Who cares if your Technorati score is higher than his if you are "both in this together".
I'm a bit late joining this conversation, but I did want to make one point: where work is concerned, you and Chris are not a team. You are separate "workers" who happen to have a personal relationship that has nothing to do with work. I found it jarring when you referred to Chris while on stage at mesh, and it appeared that the only reason that you did so was that he was your PiC.
If you talk about work and describe yourself as part of a team, many people will assume that Chris was involved in the work that you did. Leave him out of it and you're much more likely to get all the credit that is due to you.
I heard a very wise woman once tell a group of other women ... "Putting your head down and doing a good job, helps you keep your job. It doesn't get you ahead in your job."
In fact, as she went on to say, (I was in the audience too) that you have no one to blame but yourself if you dishonour your own work and your own unique outlook by not telling people about them.
In effect, her overall message was that hiding behind a "Well, maybe they'll notice me if I just do a good job" is rather a passive agressive stance. At least we have a built-in excuse to externalize the responsibility if someone passes me by.
Tara, it's interesting that you can proudly cite your accomplishments in text ... I wonder how often you've lead a conversation with the media where you do the same thing? Are you communicating your vision and unique approach ... or are you doing PR for those around you? What would happen to everyone else if you stop doing PR for them? They'll get along just fine.
Media will go where the more interesting and captivating story is -- you can't blame them.
Another wise person told me ... "Women have to realize that there's a big difference between agressive and assertive. The moment they realize they can be assertive and still be polite, the world will open up for them and they'll be listened to."
Best of luck and "10 points" for sharing this topic in public.
So basically you are saying you don't market yourself well. Interesting career choice.
I know this feeling. Despite all your effort the spotlight always falls on other people and your just feel invisible. Thanks for giving us the women's perspective. I used to think it was the other way round. You know, women would always get some attention, and more attention for good looking ones. But for a guy, if you don't know your way around, you might as well get zero attention.
Maybe being agressive is not the right word, as it carries some negative connotation. Well, as least it has some negative connotation in certain culture. How about be your own advocate? You have done good work. There is no reason not to advocate for yourself.
So...what can be done? Where do we start?
Good oft repeated question, to which the answer is writ from the garden, marry and give the earth the fruit of yr knowledge, children. Scoring in a highly competitive society has little value unless in commitment there is the great equalizer. Even co-sexual partnerships recognize the need to find a more beautiful being than in the marketplace of ideas and aggression. The answer is a woman finds a man willing to go there, or finds another man. It is an essential truth, and the opposite, condoned like wasting time, or stopping at a higher-priced gas station.
The question is moot.
As per usual, Tara, you inspire me to break my 3-paragraph comment rule. So yes, my response to this post had ro become a lengthy post of its own.
Bottom line: I think you do just find in the self-promotion arena, and I think that's cool. And I think anyone who doesn't know your contribution to various things isn't doing their homework. Or may in fact be bad or sexist, for all I know. But it's one or the other.
I don't know if this is neccessarily limited to the male/female dimension.
My Biz-PiC and I have worked together for over 8 years now and I can't even begin to tell you the number of meetings we've been to together where we've already met the other attendees and they say to him "Great to see you again" and then turn to me and say "Nice to meet you" even though we both met them at the same time previously.
We have the same problem when it comes to articles/write-ups etc. where invariably he gets mentioned (and credited) - it took some serious effort in the most recent write-up and I even then I managed to squeak out just a name mention, no quote.
The way I look at it though, I'm not concerned at the mass audience credit in the long run as I am at ensuring the "right" people know who I am. And to that end I don't think anyone would argue that you've accomplished that and more.
A very public current example of this is the situation with Hillary and Bill Clinton. Hillary has been very productive and successful in the time she's been in the Senate--even her detractors will admit to that. Yet when she and Bill appear in public together, the biggest spotlight remains on him. The solution her handlers have come up with--never have the two appear together if at all possible. Separate venues, different itineraries. No dilution of the spotlight.
I am a techie but I got to know of Chris's work through your connection. I got clued into your blog through your cluetrain activismm. In India I think it is true that you are more sought after as speaker ! he he :)
Rajan
Tara,
Late to this conversation, but here's my 2 cents.
Actually, I don't have a clue who Chris is - besides some guy you mention occasionally. But I know who you are, because I read your blog.
I suspect there might be more people like me online ... and I'm wondering if the phenomenon you're wondering about is more a MSM thing.
"full time" single mom....???? I beg to differ
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