The name game
Thanks everyone for your suggestions on a 're-name', but nothing has really struck me.
Improv? Nah. It's not about really about improv (only a smidge). Agile? It's not totally about agility. Is it Marketing 2.0? Nope. Not when we've jumped the shark on Web 2.0. Is it Open Source Marketing? Well, it goes a beyond that...besides, that concept has an owner.
Thes are all good suggestions, but they aren't capturing the heart of this (which makes me understand that I'm falling short on Pinko, too, if the message isn't clear).
Let me tell you what it is about, though...then we can get the creative juices flowing:
I love Kathy's diagram in her Death by Risk Aversion post:
However, even Kathy told me she was nervous about the name Pinko Marketing. I don't know, the last thing I want to have happen is this:
Improv? Nah. It's not about really about improv (only a smidge). Agile? It's not totally about agility. Is it Marketing 2.0? Nope. Not when we've jumped the shark on Web 2.0. Is it Open Source Marketing? Well, it goes a beyond that...besides, that concept has an owner.
Thes are all good suggestions, but they aren't capturing the heart of this (which makes me understand that I'm falling short on Pinko, too, if the message isn't clear).
Let me tell you what it is about, though...then we can get the creative juices flowing:
- It's about the community. The commons. The producers. The amateurs.
- It's about decentralizing the whole 'brand', 'message', 'design', etc. process.
- It's about those times that I have been reading blogs who say that they don't think Riya will be worth the 'hype' and then I look into the comments section and see that one of our alpha testers has come to our defense with a, "I used it and it works. It's not perfect, but it works like they say."
- It's not about conversing, it's about relating. But it isn't totally about that, either. It's about stepping back when you need to, stepping in when you are required.
- It's even sometimes about paving cowpaths (thanks Mac!), but not expecting people to follow them.
- It's about letting go of control. Totally.
- It will effect your bottom line, but it's not about your bottom line.
- It's not about providing good service, but, of course that is part of it.
- It's about recognizing that people will naturally gravitate towards something that is worth gravitating towards. If you need to push or pull them, you have a problem.
- It's not about consensus, but it recognizes diversity.
- It may be about niches, but not in a "I'm paying lip service to this under-attended group of people."
I love Kathy's diagram in her Death by Risk Aversion post:
And Doc told me I have to own it because it's my project and I'm passionate about it (although he also advised me to keep it a-political). He's right, but being the ...erm... Pinko Marketer I am, I want to remain open to suggestions.
I don't want sensationalist, but I do want provocative. I need lots of a-ha! Cluetrain, Gonzo kind of a-ha! stuff.
So...okay...I'd love to hear your suggestions...
I don't want sensationalist, but I do want provocative. I need lots of a-ha! Cluetrain, Gonzo kind of a-ha! stuff.
So...okay...I'd love to hear your suggestions...
[tags: pinkomarketing, cluetrain, marketing]
24 Comments:
Ok, jetlag has hit, and I probably should not be near a computer...but I read "It's about stepping back when you need to, stepping in when you are required." and go "HokeyCokey marketing" and the song will run through my head for the rest of the night. You said be creative!
I'm thinking along the lines of "intellectual marketing" or perhaps "soul marketing." I have no problem with "pinko marketing" but I can see where an older generation might not want to touch it. I think people don't realize pinko means "modestly left" and somehow equate it with "crazy commie-lovin' dopesmoker."
I have to say, it never crossed my mind that you meant that kind of "pinko" until I read your discourse.
Though I'd been reading a lot about pikto, your pro-fem rants, and pink saki. ;->
Sounds Taoist to me: "the way that can be spoken of is not the true way".
I'm definitely one of the folks that fell in the "a-ha" crowd. But I can see the concern on folks faces when I mention the name. For me the ideals and goals of Pinko Marketing seem equally at home with "for the people by the people" on the other side of the political spectrum.
Stick with Pinko, it's real (with all its good and bad baggage). :)
Shank.
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Why don't you stick with the name, and add a 30 page legal disclaimer indicating "in no way is this a reflection of political, subversive ....etc"
OR ..... duh
Ignore all this claptrap and stick to the vision. I think there is a compelling point to be made here, that captures a new way to approach marketing which could not exist pre www.
What struck me about the most negative comments, is that they are anonymous. Anyone who "gets it" has the confidence to come clean in the open. By the nature of their comments, they are clearly not interested in contributing to the serious (fun) debate that can be had here.
Lastly, perhaps you need to be a Brit, Canuck or Aussie to recognise the difference between the name and the issue. Americans can take that point as they see fit, and I will "cross pints" on that one anytime :-)
I say stick with the name, and lets evolve the concept. If a new name hits as this moves ahead, then great, but fabricating a name is artificial, and so "old marketing" by the way, and it will kill it.
I think what you're after has to do with participation. Read this and see if you come up with some new ideas.. it's about art but can be generealized to web structures of participation very easily in my opinion..
http://interactingarts.org/index.php?id=35,41,0,0,1,0
The word "suggestion" in the text might be a bit confusing (it's a somewhat bad translation of a Swedish word), it means roughly the same as "stimuli" but with the added meaning that a suggestion is a stimuli with some sort of message, not just any sensed input.
/Andie
Participatory Marketing. I love saying the word Participatory (and Anticipatory too).
I'm never worried about the people who hate the idea -- I'm worried about people hating it *for the wrong reason* when they'd otherwise love it. The name frames it, but there are so many different interpretations/understandings of the word.
That said, you have to be true to yourself. If it says all the right things for you, and invokes the spirit in which you create all this, then I say go for it. : )
And you're right -- there might not be any name that captures it any better, and I'd vote for keeping the sharp edges rather than going bland (which most of the alternate suggestions just don't feel strong or unique, and you certainly win on THAT count).
Who knows -- maybe the controversy over the name is one more way to get people to think more deeply about what the ideas mean, and that's always a good thing too.
"I'm never worried about the people who hate the idea -- I'm worried about people hating it *for the wrong reason* when they'd otherwise love it. The name frames it, but there are so many different interpretations/understandings of the word.
That said, you have to be true to yourself. If it says all the right things for you, and invokes the spirit in which you create all this, then I say go for it. : )"
I think Kathy is on to something. If you picked the name because it seems like a good fit for your idea, then stick with it. If you picked the name just to get people's attention then I'd dump it.
Personally the name was the only real problem I have with your theories, and we've already talked about the points I disagree with.
The name you picked and the imagery you are using to communicate your ideas is going to draw fire, there's no way around that. What I fear is going to happen now if you change the name is that the mostly anonymous criticism you were getting for the name/imagery will stop, and the people that are left will doubt your conviction to your ideas because you caved on changing the name. They will think that you picked the name because it tied into the bigger idea, and that if you will change the name, you must not believe the ideas.
Like I said, I don't agree with the name or the images, but if YOU do, then I would keep them. You are going to keep pissing people off, and if you REALLY want people to understand your thinking, you will have to weather that till they see that you aren't giving up, and that you believe in your ideas.
First off, I'm fine with Pinko. But if that's off the table I think your central theme is really the whole letting go of control thing. And that's also the biggest leap for most marketers. So what about "No Control Marketing" or "The No Control Manifesto".
I love the word pinko and would suggest to go ahead with it but having re-read the post I would say that word pinko does not capture the essence of the points you listed down. The aspect that projects is one about breaking out from one paradigm to another one(Radicalness). The word in itself
does not capture the essence of the new paradigm.
That ways the use of the symbol/word 'Pinko' in a new context does not fully comprise its essence and also the residual effect of the meaning attached earlier to the word is causing a serious baggage in many who hear it. The best would be coining of a whole new word which has not been coined earlier or to pick up some other word which is as radical but so old that it does not have any of the residual effect of the word :).
Use mythology or old literature to pick some such words :)
what about cooperative marketing? derive a metaphor from workers' cooperatives....
as for being anon..(and I critiqued her use of theory, not the symbolism) i don't really understand why this is such a problem for some. I don't have an online identity and I don't run around the same circles as any of you. I didn't have a problem with the images Tara chose, only that they are a bit tired and I'd expect something fresh from a creative, rather than recycled symbols twisted into a new idea. Anyway, if you must have some sort of description:
female, early 30's, anthropologist, Bay Area native now in Denver.
How about Agora Marketing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agora
Rajan
http://rajan.wordpress.com
conversive marketing
from Old French conversion, from Latin conversiō, conversiōn-, a turning around, from conversus, past participle of convertere, to turn around
meaning:
1. Capable of being converted or changed.
2. Ready to converse; social. [Archaic]
Well I, for one, know exactly what Pinko means (born and raised, what can you do?). Funny seeing all the old Soviet propaganda cycled by the copyfighters, and the Creative Commons such a force. But yeah, in a business environment, you'd kind of have to trade on obscurity and hope fellow travelers like myself get the joke.
Fellowtravelers.com forwards to a web site on business travel, which I find hilarious.
Cooperative? Participatory? Agora? Conversive? Good, but not a-ha.
I think I have to take a risk here (thanks to those of you for the support) and stick with Pinko, which doesn't mean communist at all.
I recently heard a story about how Larry Lessig was being bullied regarding the Creative Commons - that people wanted him to change the name. And someone else told me that the Mozilla lizard was under fire.
Both overcame. Of course, marketing isn't nearly as nobel of a pursuit as CC or Mozilla, but I have the same goodwill feelings.
Thanks all. ;)
and henderson.collin - you are SO right about that being 'old marketing'. ;)
Rather than look for an adjective to modify marketing, why not look for a whole new noun?
Not an answer, just a thought.e.
I like pinking marketing, rhymes & chimes chinese.
Then there is peeking marketing, alludes to tipping point, that which shifts by sheer weight of consumer move, ie. paradigm shift, And obviously, the duck & the Chimese. Isn't everything in contraposition to the Chimese??
How about The Emperor's New PR :)
I did like Pinko but if it catches on I'll have to come up with a new pen name.
I truly believe that you have an important message that needs to be heard. Unfortunately, I believe the majority of people will tune out the message because of the negative connotations most people have to the word "pinko". What a shame that would be!
More importantly, all you've done thus far is provided a very glossed over utopian view of how the masses will control the marketing message. Don’t get me wrong, this is a good start, but unless you back it up with methodology, practical applications and real world examples I don’t think your idea will gain much traction. When I read your manifesto I recently thought of two recent blog posts I had read on "agile marketing" - here and here. IMHO I think the ideal scenario would be to develop an agile marketing methodology designed to engage and empower the market. If you would like to explore this further, drop me an email - pat at shadowbox.com
Cheers,
Patrick Dodd
I think I figured out the better name. What if instead of Pinko Marketing or Relationship Marketing, we went back to the pure roots of what Marketing was before it was tainted by the smarmy sleazeballs out there (who were really more sales people anyway).
What if we were to look at marketing more as the dance between the customer and thr organization - it is not unidirectional in either direction, it was always about the company communicating its value in ways that allowed the customer to discover it. That brings a more complex answer though, but I think we are returning to our roots with a fresh attitude in a new era
The more I thought about it, the more II think we should just call it “Real Marketing” - because it is about real people, it is really the pure form of marketing and it is about companies being real.
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